3 ms·

Spain isn't a union state

by type0 4y ago

skissane 4y ago
Why should the type of state be decisive? The Bolsheviks wrote a constitution providing for a "union state". I doubt the framers of the Soviet Constitution actually meant what they said – it was essentially propaganda to present the Soviet Union as some kind of "voluntary association", despite the reality that there was nothing voluntary about it. While it was a federation on paper, its substance was much closer to that of a unitary state. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the seceding union republics used their constitutional status to justify their secession as legitimate - they took the constitution's pretence literally. But, imagine in an alternative timeline, the Soviet constitution had been written without this pretence–would that have stopped the Baltic states from seceding? I really doubt it. Would it have made any difference to the legitimacy of their secession? Only on meaningless paper. Even with the Soviet Constitution we actually had – why did the Union as a whole break-up, but not the RSFSR? That question is better answered in terms of real world power structures, than legal formalities. Chechnya fought for independence, and if Moscow had been weaker, they could have won. Even now, some would say that Ramzan Kadyrov rules Chechnya as his own quasi-independent fiefdom, and is just biding his time for the right moment to officially claim independence (maybe, if Putin were to suddenly die without a clear successor). If Chechnya were to successfully secede, that could inspire other parts of Russia to seek to emulate its example.
mantas 4y ago
More like Spain constitution doesn't have an article detailing exit process. Meanwhile USSR constitution had such article. Which was used by Lithuania when declaring independence.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pastacacioepepe 4y ago
  > More like Spain constitution doesn't have an article detailing exit process. > Meanwhile USSR constitution had such article. Which was used by Lithuania when declaring independence. Source? I can't find any article detailing an exit process in the 1977 USSR constitution. Only at the beginning it says that the USSR is a voluntary union, but that's far from saying it details an exit process.
  - mantas 4y ago
    Article 72. Each Union Republic shall retain the right freely to secede from the USSR.

Spain isn't a union state

by type0 4y ago

Spain isn't a union state

Why should the type of state be decisive? The Bolsheviks wrote a constitution providing for a "union state". I doubt the framers of the Soviet Constitution actually meant what they said – it was essentially propaganda to present the Soviet Union as some kind of "voluntary association", despite the reality that there was nothing voluntary about it. While it was a federation on paper, its substance was much closer to that of a unitary state. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the seceding union republics used their constitutional status to justify their secession as legitimate - they took the constitution's pretence literally. But, imagine in an alternative timeline, the Soviet constitution had been written without this pretence–would that have stopped the Baltic states from seceding? I really doubt it. Would it have made any difference to the legitimacy of their secession? Only on meaningless paper. Even with the Soviet Constitution we actually had – why did the Union as a whole break-up, but not the RSFSR? That question is better answered in terms of real world power structures, than legal formalities. Chechnya fought for independence, and if Moscow had been weaker, they could have won. Even now, some would say that Ramzan Kadyrov rules Chechnya as his own quasi-independent fiefdom, and is just biding his time for the right moment to officially claim independence (maybe, if Putin were to suddenly die without a clear successor). If Chechnya were to successfully secede, that could inspire other parts of Russia to seek to emulate its example.

mantas 4y ago

More like Spain constitution doesn't have an article detailing exit process. Meanwhile USSR constitution had such article. Which was used by Lithuania when declaring independence.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pastacacioepepe 4y ago
> More like Spain constitution doesn't have an article detailing exit process. > Meanwhile USSR constitution had such article. Which was used by Lithuania when declaring independence. Source? I can't find any article detailing an exit process in the 1977 USSR constitution. Only at the beginning it says that the USSR is a voluntary union, but that's far from saying it details an exit process.
- mantas 4y ago
  Article 72. Each Union Republic shall retain the right freely to secede from the USSR.