4 ms·
> There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake This notion is based on ignoring historic facts. G
by eternalban 4y ago
> There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake
This notion is based on ignoring historic facts. Germany (and Japan) in WWII were fully vanquished foes whose entire socio-political system was redrawn by the victors. Marshall plan executed in an environment of near total control over Germany. US simply was not in a position to do a Marshall Plan for ex-Soviet Union.
> The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s.
This is another nice sounding but entirely wrongheaded thought. Do you really think an outside force can come and force a nation with its historic trajectory and 'make them democratic'? Democracy, or whatever goes by that name in the West today, has its roots in Magna Carta! That's 1215 [yes, I watched Better Call Saul]. Read up on history of England, and how much bloodshed it took to go from there to a parliamentary system, with (important to note) its entire elite class on board with the political arrangement -- it was after all what they wanted after having their Glorious Revolution.
The idea that a bunch of Americans can waltz into Moscow and St. Petersburg and turn Russia in a "democratic nation" by some means of time compression squeezing in centuries of organic development into a couple of decades is frankly laughable.
- LtWorf 4y agoGood point. Except you're forgetting Marshal plan wasn't only for Germany and Japan.
- eternalban 4y agoNot forgetting. Wartime allies, totally vanquished foes, and newly minted countries. Russia in 1991 was neither. US did in fact do another Marshall Plan after WW2, catapulting China into 21st century. But that help came after a very deep strategic understanding between US's and China's ruling class. Again, nothing of the sort happened with Russia nor was it possible.
- lapcat 4y ago> This notion is based on ignoring historic facts. No, it's not. Please refrain from this kind of personal comment. I wasn't suggesting that the US meddle in Russia's political system. Russia was already moving to democracy by itself. The point was to provide economic aid to support that existing, fledgling, fragile democracy. What happened, unfortunately, is that many Russians suffered heavily economically during the transition, and they started to look back with some fondness to the "good old days", because they were worse off financially than before. That's where the western world could have helped.
- eternalban 4y ago> No, it's not. Please refrain from this kind of personal comment. Pointing out (perceived) omission is a not a "personal comment".
- lapcat 4y ago"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You should assume that any commenter will know that Germany and Japan were occupied after WW2. Of course I know that. I mean, I'm the one who brought up the Marshall Plan in the first place! You set up a straw man to criticize.
- yks 4y agoYep, serfdom was abolished in England in 1574 and in Russia in 1861, almost three hundred years later.