3 ms·

that's good, as the US is a constitutional republic

by ghostwriter 4y ago

ZoomerCretin 4y ago
Democratic republic, which is what everyone means when we say democracy.
- ghostwriter 4y ago
  Hardly everyone, but left zoomers who are unable to understand the key founding papers and who refuse descriptive comments of the founders on the matter most certainly do. [1]: "While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States. The Constitution not only provides the framework for how the federal and state governments are structured, but also places significant limits on their powers. “Federal” means that there is both a national government and governments of the 50 states. A “republic” is a form of government in which the people hold power, but elect representatives to exercise that power." Federalist No_14 also had a lot to say on the matter: “In a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.” [1] https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen...
  - 8note 4y ago
    The founders aren't very relevant anymore. Their system was bad, and the current one is better, though it keeps some of the old flaws they introduced as compromises for the time Based on your quote, they didn't understand that representative democracy is still democracy? The internet lessons the need for representatives, since we don't need to travel to talk to each other anymore.
    - ghostwriter 4y ago
      > The founders aren't very relevant anymore. Their system was bad, and the current one is better, though it keeps some of the old flaws they introduced as compromises for the time The US embassy thinks otherwise: https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen...
      - nl 4y ago
        I'll just post this once instead of on every place you are posting that same link: > The United States is a representative democracy. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/lesson-plans/Government_and_You_handouts.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/lesson-pl...
  - pedrosorio 4y ago
    > Hardly everyone, but left zoomers I am not a zoomer and I agree with the commenter you are replying to. Most of the "west" has a form of government that is a representative democracy (most of them as republics, but quite a few as constitutional monarchies as well), including the US. Most people would not waste their time nitpicking the usage of such a widely accepted term. https://web.archive.org/web/20200215230538/https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/age-of-democracies https://web.archive.org/web/20200215230538/https://ourworldi...
    - ghostwriter 4y ago
      > Most people would not waste their time nitpicking the usage of such a widely accepted term. For some reason the US embassy still finds it important enough to broadcast the difference to the rest of the world: https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen... Could you explain that?
      - andrekandre 4y ago
        i think you are being a bit pedantic, it says: While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. notice the wording "more accurately" and not "mischaracterized" etc -- btw... whats the point in arguing the u.s isn't a democracy? are you trying to say that people shouldn't be able to decide their leaders?
        ghostwriter 4y ago
        it's the US embassy being very pedantic about the matter to the extent they find it important to dedicate the starting paragraph of the entire section about the US government, even though the difference is just about being more accurate. in fact, accuracy in founding principles of governing is as important as accuracy of long-distance ballistic motion planning. > btw... whats the point in arguing the u.s isn't a democracy? because a typical follow-up discussion usually starts with "so where's the popular vote?" and this diminishes the principle of fair representation of smaller states of the federal republic.
  - nl 4y ago
    The difference between "a democracy" and "a constitutional federal republic" seems to be a distinction without meaning. There's a certain segment who seem very adamant that this is a very important argument to win against "the left". But I've never met any "leftist" who cares particularly - most seem to shrug, concede the label and move on. I'm pretty much in agreement. The US is a democracy in the wide sense in that it uses a democratic process to choose government. It's also true that it's a representative democracy in that the process works by people choosing representatives. So sure - constitutional federal republic. But why does anyone think this is particularly important, and why is this seen as something that there is any left/right distinction on is beyond me.
vkou 4y ago
You're in the small, but vocal minority of people who incorrectly believe that direct democracy is the only form of democracy that exists, or that the term 'constitutional republic' says literally anything about how a country is governed. The US is a respresentative democracy that is also a constitutional republic. Denmark is a representative democracy that is also a constitutional monarchy. Canada is a representative democracy that is also an unconstitutional monarchy. Russia is a kind-of-if-you-squint-but-not-really-representative oligarchy-slash-autocracy that is also a constitutional republic. Whether or not a country has a constitution, or is a republic has almost no bearing on how it is actually governed.
- ghostwriter 4y ago
  > who incorrectly believe that direct democracy is the only form of democracy that exists I never claimed that. You are trying to address a non-existing point. Aslo, being in minority has never been an indicator of wrong by default, so I don't see why you had to mention it. At least I know that the US embassy also finds it important to remind everyone about the difference [1]. > or that the term 'constitutional republic' says literally anything about how a country is governed. [...] Whether or not a country has a constitution, or is a republic has almost no bearing on how it is actually governed. It does have a significant bearing on applicability of popular vote in a given federation. [1] https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen...

that's good, as the US is a constitutional republic

ZoomerCretin 4y ago

Democratic republic, which is what everyone means when we say democracy.

ghostwriter 4y ago
Hardly everyone, but left zoomers who are unable to understand the key founding papers and who refuse descriptive comments of the founders on the matter most certainly do. [1]: "While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States. The Constitution not only provides the framework for how the federal and state governments are structured, but also places significant limits on their powers. “Federal” means that there is both a national government and governments of the 50 states. A “republic” is a form of government in which the people hold power, but elect representatives to exercise that power." Federalist No_14 also had a lot to say on the matter: “In a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.” [1] https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen...
- 8note 4y ago
  The founders aren't very relevant anymore. Their system was bad, and the current one is better, though it keeps some of the old flaws they introduced as compromises for the time Based on your quote, they didn't understand that representative democracy is still democracy? The internet lessons the need for representatives, since we don't need to travel to talk to each other anymore.
  - ghostwriter 4y ago
    > The founders aren't very relevant anymore. Their system was bad, and the current one is better, though it keeps some of the old flaws they introduced as compromises for the time The US embassy thinks otherwise: https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen...
    - nl 4y ago
      I'll just post this once instead of on every place you are posting that same link: > The United States is a representative democracy. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/lesson-plans/Government_and_You_handouts.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/lesson-pl...
- pedrosorio 4y ago
  > Hardly everyone, but left zoomers I am not a zoomer and I agree with the commenter you are replying to. Most of the "west" has a form of government that is a representative democracy (most of them as republics, but quite a few as constitutional monarchies as well), including the US. Most people would not waste their time nitpicking the usage of such a widely accepted term. https://web.archive.org/web/20200215230538/https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/age-of-democracies https://web.archive.org/web/20200215230538/https://ourworldi...
  - ghostwriter 4y ago
    > Most people would not waste their time nitpicking the usage of such a widely accepted term. For some reason the US embassy still finds it important enough to broadcast the difference to the rest of the world: https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen... Could you explain that?
    - andrekandre 4y ago
      i think you are being a bit pedantic, it says: While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. notice the wording "more accurately" and not "mischaracterized" etc -- btw... whats the point in arguing the u.s isn't a democracy? are you trying to say that people shouldn't be able to decide their leaders?
      - ghostwriter 4y ago
        it's the US embassy being very pedantic about the matter to the extent they find it important to dedicate the starting paragraph of the entire section about the US government, even though the difference is just about being more accurate. in fact, accuracy in founding principles of governing is as important as accuracy of long-distance ballistic motion planning. > btw... whats the point in arguing the u.s isn't a democracy? because a typical follow-up discussion usually starts with "so where's the popular vote?" and this diminishes the principle of fair representation of smaller states of the federal republic.
- nl 4y ago
  The difference between "a democracy" and "a constitutional federal republic" seems to be a distinction without meaning. There's a certain segment who seem very adamant that this is a very important argument to win against "the left". But I've never met any "leftist" who cares particularly - most seem to shrug, concede the label and move on. I'm pretty much in agreement. The US is a democracy in the wide sense in that it uses a democratic process to choose government. It's also true that it's a representative democracy in that the process works by people choosing representatives. So sure - constitutional federal republic. But why does anyone think this is particularly important, and why is this seen as something that there is any left/right distinction on is beyond me.

vkou 4y ago

You're in the small, but vocal minority of people who incorrectly believe that direct democracy is the only form of democracy that exists, or that the term 'constitutional republic' says literally anything about how a country is governed. The US is a respresentative democracy that is also a constitutional republic. Denmark is a representative democracy that is also a constitutional monarchy. Canada is a representative democracy that is also an unconstitutional monarchy. Russia is a kind-of-if-you-squint-but-not-really-representative oligarchy-slash-autocracy that is also a constitutional republic. Whether or not a country has a constitution, or is a republic has almost no bearing on how it is actually governed.

ghostwriter 4y ago
> who incorrectly believe that direct democracy is the only form of democracy that exists I never claimed that. You are trying to address a non-existing point. Aslo, being in minority has never been an indicator of wrong by default, so I don't see why you had to mention it. At least I know that the US embassy also finds it important to remind everyone about the difference [1]. > or that the term 'constitutional republic' says literally anything about how a country is governed. [...] Whether or not a country has a constitution, or is a republic has almost no bearing on how it is actually governed. It does have a significant bearing on applicability of popular vote in a given federation. [1] https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/ https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-governmen...