8 ms·

Without Siri, the iPhone reminder app stinks

47 points by apress 15y ago

falling 15y ago
While I agree the app's UX is absolutely sub-par, the guy could skip steps 4-7 and just tap on Remind Me, as the screen looks exactly the same at step 4 as it does at step 8 and as you can do on every cell with a right pointing arrow. I don't like this trend where everybody is now a UX expert and actively looks for subtle defects everywhere to prove they are smart. Same goes for praising the designers. Sometimes little details are just little details.
- apress 15y ago
  Thanks for pointing out the mixed up screen shot. Just fixed that. I don't think the flaws here are all that subtle and this is a huge waste of time for me at least three or four times a day. Drawing attention and encouraging discussion of said flaws hopefully gets the attention of the powers-that=be to fix them.
- owenmarshall 15y ago
  I think this is just poor screenshot placement on his part. The only displayed information is the text you just typed in. There isn't a time/date below. There is no remind me. At least, that's how it works on my 3GS. Using reminders with no Siri has been driving me insane as well.
  - masklinn 15y ago
    > At least, that's how it works on my 3GS. Definitely like that on a 4S as well. > Using reminders with no Siri has been driving me insane as well. I don't know, I guess it depends what you use it for: I use it mostly as a todo and to jot things I'll have to do at some point, so the basic UI works really well. In fact, Siri frustrates the fuck out of me because it absolutely completely definitely wants a date or a place and I have not fond out how to tell it to add "butter" on a list of stuff to buy without it wanting me to say where or when I'm going to buy the damn dairy. edit: having written that, I think that's the split in Reminders and the reason why OP does not like it: Reminders is both a reminder and a todos app, the reminders part works like a secretary/assistant (hence Siri mandating a time or a geofence and not allowing for putting it into a specific list) and the todos works as a regular todo (hence manual creation of a task jumping immediately to creating a new one and multiple, easy-to-setup and easy-to-switch-between lists). The issue happens when trying to use reminders-Reminders manually (OP's issue) and todos-Reminders as a secretary (mine) In fact, this seems supported by geofencing handling: it only "knows" addresses from contacts, so the machine has to understand what you're referencing for a reminder (just as your secretary would need to I guess)
    - joelhooks 15y ago
      When she asks "when" say "never" and it skips the date.
      - masklinn 15y ago
        Mmmm I thought I'd tried that, I'll check as soon as I've got something to note. Thanks. edit: and sure enough it worked, I guess I'm retarded.
      - dmd 15y ago
        Or say "remember to" instead of "remind me to". (Double-replying to make sure you see this as well.)
    - dmd 15y ago
      > Siri frustrates the fuck out of me because it absolutely completely definitely wants a date Say "remember to" instead of "remind me to", and it won't ask for a date.
  - falling 15y ago
    True, hadn't verified that.
- tomlin 15y ago
  > the guy could skip steps 4-7 and just tap on Remind Me, as the screen looks exactly the same at step 4 as it does at step 8 and as you can do on every cell with a right pointing arrow. If this were any other manufacturer, I think people wouldn't mind. With Apple, you come to expect refined UX. This is because Apple (and Jobs) have a history of denouncing crappy UI with OCD precision. This is what Apple does best. If Google's search index quality goes down - while it is probably minor - you cringe because you know this is what Google is supposed to be good at. > actively looks for subtle defects everywhere to prove they are smart. Sometimes. But I think in this case it is valid as much of Apple software is nonsense-free.
cmelbye 15y ago
I'm convinced that Apple intentionally made the Reminders app cumbersome to make Siri's interface to create reminders more attractive. Apple simply knows too much about good design to have made an app this awkward without it being intentional.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > Apple simply knows too much about good design to have made an app this awkward without it being intentional. It is intentional. It's intended that Reminders is first and foremost a to-do list, hence the basic entry mode being entering a lists of things to do. Notice: * You don't need to tap "+" to create a new task, you can tap the empty line at the end of a list * Pressing the "return" key on the virtual keyboard drops you to a new task creation Everything else (timed reminders, geofencing, notes, changing the list, changing the priority) is considered secondary. Reminders maps pretty directly to Mail's Todo lists. edit: after having marshalled my thoughts more, see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3265820 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3265820 tl;dr: "manual mode" reminders is a simple and fast todos list, whereas "automatic (siri)" reminders is a secretary taking your appointments, issues happen when trying to use one for the other.
- arethuza 15y ago
  What about iTunes for Windows then? Is its awkwardness intentional?
- illumin8 15y ago
  The optimist inside me hopes that what you say is true. The pessimist inside of me thinks that perhaps an app would never have been released in this sorry state under Steve's watch...
  - masklinn 15y ago
    All of iOS5 was designed "under Steve's watch"...
ianstormtaylor 15y ago
Setting location reminders requires that the address be in your Contacts for someone. So forget just adding reminders for when you need to go to the store, or the pharmacy, or whatever. Deleting reminders is no easy task either since they used swipe right to change lists instead of the usual pull up a delete button. Yup, the app is horrible.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > Setting location reminders requires that the address be in your Contacts for someone. So forget just adding reminders for when you need to go to the store, or the pharmacy, or whatever. It's perfectly possible to add companies (and places, aliased to companies) to your address book. So it works, but you have to tell it what your pharmacy is beforehand.
  - shawnc 15y ago
    And honestly to expect it to know you're at a pharmacy or a store, is silly. This is very early in the game and you're already expecting it to perform as if it'd been in the market for years.
    - masklinn 15y ago
      As with TFA, I think ianstormtaylor was talking about doing so "manually" instead of via Siri: when trying to add a location to a task/reminder, Reminders does not provide some sort of text field for the address but asks you to pick a contact from your address book (it also gives you "fast access" to your current location and your home, but that's it). Worse, I think: it does not let you create a contact from the spot either so you have to get out of Reminders, open the phone/contacts app, create a new contact, then go back to reminders and select the contact you just created. That is painful.
      - ianstormtaylor 15y ago
        Yup, exactly. And being forced to goto Contacts just makes the whole thing hell. It could have easily been implemented by entering a location into a textfield accompanied by a map, the exact same way you enter "places" everywhere else on the device and the web.
saturdaysaint 15y ago
This has been a problem with every mobile to-do list app ever, even best-in-breed stuff like Orchestra and 2Do. There are just too many things that you reasonably expect to do with a to-do - mark it off, see all of your completed tasks, delete, change the date, change the alarm, change the priority... These things seem much easier to pull off in a full web browser, so that all of the controls are revealed all the time. I think the reason that so many of these to-do list apps exist is because the workflow seems like it would be easy to nail, but it isn't. Voice is quite possibly the best solution.
epaga 15y ago
At least on ipad, you can switch the view from List to Date-based. You then have a scrollable calendar view on the left. When you tap a day, you can then type in a reminder on the right and it automatically gets added to remind you that day at 9am. Pretty nice, albeit a bit "hidden".
- masklinn 15y ago
  > At least on ipad, you can switch the view from List to Date-based. You can do that on iPhone as well. > You then have a scrollable calendar view on the left. Not that, but there is a "Calendar" button in the top left (lets you configure your lists in list-based view). There is also a list of the next 11 days at the bottom of the screen for quick access. > When you tap a day, you can then type in a reminder on the right and it automatically gets added to remind you that day at 9am. iPhone version behaves exactly the same.
mason55 15y ago
The worst is that even though you set the date & time for a reminder and hit "Done" you still haven't saved it; you have to hit "Done" a second time. I learned that when I missed a few reminders because I didn't hit save a second time.
- raimondious 15y ago
  I was expecting to read this when I clicked on the article because that's the problem I have with Reminders. I've never had an issue with the stuff they are talking about – I don't count the taps and slides because they're intuitive.
kmfrk 15y ago
The worst part of the app is that "Home" is not the default location reminder; "Current Location" is. I don't know if I am in the minority, but I think there is a benefit the the American GDP, if Apple changed the default location to "Home", instead of forcing everyone to waste their time setting it themselves.
- masklinn 15y ago
  FWIW, the default location behavior is coherent with the default trigger: "when I leave". I don't think I'd have more use for those defaults if they were "home" and "when I arrive".
RandallBrown 15y ago
I hate todo list apps that make me enter a bunch of bullshit just to make a task. I actually really like how easy it is to create a task in the reminders app. I often don't need an actual reminder, I just want a list.
nvk 15y ago
That's why i created a supper simple app to remind me of stuff, ended up selling a few hundred thousand, till Apple copied our name. http://itunes.apple.com/app/reminders/id389611206 http://itunes.apple.com/app/reminders/id389611206
w0utert 15y ago
I must have a very special iPhone that comes with a very special version of the reminders application, because half of the 10 steps he lists are simply not necessary, and also, the application seems respond perfectly fine to my inputs. Let me see: 1) Tap + button 2) Type reminder text, hit enter, reminder is added to the list 3) With the keyboard still up, tap the reminder text 4) Tap 'remind me' 5) Tap 'on a day', then tap the date select box that appears and select the time and date 6) Done Hardly rocket science, and I can't really imagine how you would do this with less user input. I call BS on this article.
- smackfu 15y ago
  Your steps are the same as his, you just numbered them differently. And there really is a second 7) Done after the 6) Done. The main inefficiency is that Remind Me is a sub-screen, even though it only has two options (On a Day and At a Location). Those could have been added to the main Details screen and then you would save at least two taps.
runjake 15y ago
So does the calendar app, and perhaps the texting app. I think that's the whole reason Siri came along, to help alleviate the shortcomings of the smartphone interface.
- masklinn 15y ago
  Calendar I'd give you, Apple has never been very good at those (hell, iCal became worse from Snow Leopard to Lion), but messages? What are your issues with it?
  - runjake 15y ago
    The screen is small, and it's hard to type out a message while you're walking along or in a car. Granted, it's more an issue of form factor rather than a shortcoming of Apple's, but again, this is the gap that Siri is designed to close, and the whole basis for their Siri ads.
dpcan 15y ago
What an exaggeration. Seriously, was it THIS hard for him to figure out? I found it really easy. I've got all my Christmas lists in it too. I'm on 3GS - no Siri
nirvana 15y ago
One of my apps in the appstore is a reminders type app called Next Thing. Its designed for a slightly different purpose-- its meant to be left open next to your computer and keep you focused on one task at a time. You can see it here: http://pocketronic.com/ http://pocketronic.com/ With the keyboard up on the iPhone or iPod touch, there's not a lot of space for controls in the navigation bar. You often need a cancel button and a save button, and since the title traditionally goes in the middle, there are no more button spots on the bar. To solve this, we put the button in the view. Our view is of an index card given the nature of our app, and on it is a date field. But its a bit subtle, you can see it here: (not sure if this URL is stable or not.) http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/055/Purple/04/e5/da/mzl.afnjusdl.320x480-75.jpg http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/055/Purple/04/e5/da/mzl.afnj... However, since customers might not figure out that the date field can be tapped on to bring up the date picker, we also put a calendar button in the middle of the Navigation Bar. We did this by replacing the title with a custom view, in which we put the button. This is probably what Apple should do. FWIW, the hardest and most successful part of this app, in my thinking, is the date picker. You can see a screenshot of it here: http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/015/Purple/a3/6d/de/mzl.mkfrataa.320x480-75.jpg http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/015/Purple/a3/6d/de/mzl.mkfr... We haven't added iCloud to it yet because we expected reminders, being built into the OS would kill sales. But that hasn't happened, even with the advantage of being integrated into Siri. So, we'll be adding iCloud soon as I can get some spare time.

47 points by apress 15y ago

While I agree the app's UX is absolutely sub-par, the guy could skip steps 4-7 and just tap on Remind Me, as the screen looks exactly the same at step 4 as it does at step 8 and as you can do on every cell with a right pointing arrow. I don't like this trend where everybody is now a UX expert and actively looks for subtle defects everywhere to prove they are smart. Same goes for praising the designers. Sometimes little details are just little details.

apress 15y ago
Thanks for pointing out the mixed up screen shot. Just fixed that. I don't think the flaws here are all that subtle and this is a huge waste of time for me at least three or four times a day. Drawing attention and encouraging discussion of said flaws hopefully gets the attention of the powers-that=be to fix them.
owenmarshall 15y ago
I think this is just poor screenshot placement on his part. The only displayed information is the text you just typed in. There isn't a time/date below. There is no remind me. At least, that's how it works on my 3GS. Using reminders with no Siri has been driving me insane as well.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > At least, that's how it works on my 3GS. Definitely like that on a 4S as well. > Using reminders with no Siri has been driving me insane as well. I don't know, I guess it depends what you use it for: I use it mostly as a todo and to jot things I'll have to do at some point, so the basic UI works really well. In fact, Siri frustrates the fuck out of me because it absolutely completely definitely wants a date or a place and I have not fond out how to tell it to add "butter" on a list of stuff to buy without it wanting me to say where or when I'm going to buy the damn dairy. edit: having written that, I think that's the split in Reminders and the reason why OP does not like it: Reminders is both a reminder and a todos app, the reminders part works like a secretary/assistant (hence Siri mandating a time or a geofence and not allowing for putting it into a specific list) and the todos works as a regular todo (hence manual creation of a task jumping immediately to creating a new one and multiple, easy-to-setup and easy-to-switch-between lists). The issue happens when trying to use reminders-Reminders manually (OP's issue) and todos-Reminders as a secretary (mine) In fact, this seems supported by geofencing handling: it only "knows" addresses from contacts, so the machine has to understand what you're referencing for a reminder (just as your secretary would need to I guess)
  - joelhooks 15y ago
    When she asks "when" say "never" and it skips the date.
    - masklinn 15y ago
      Mmmm I thought I'd tried that, I'll check as soon as I've got something to note. Thanks. edit: and sure enough it worked, I guess I'm retarded.
    - dmd 15y ago
      Or say "remember to" instead of "remind me to". (Double-replying to make sure you see this as well.)
  - dmd 15y ago
    > Siri frustrates the fuck out of me because it absolutely completely definitely wants a date Say "remember to" instead of "remind me to", and it won't ask for a date.
- falling 15y ago
  True, hadn't verified that.
tomlin 15y ago
> the guy could skip steps 4-7 and just tap on Remind Me, as the screen looks exactly the same at step 4 as it does at step 8 and as you can do on every cell with a right pointing arrow. If this were any other manufacturer, I think people wouldn't mind. With Apple, you come to expect refined UX. This is because Apple (and Jobs) have a history of denouncing crappy UI with OCD precision. This is what Apple does best. If Google's search index quality goes down - while it is probably minor - you cringe because you know this is what Google is supposed to be good at. > actively looks for subtle defects everywhere to prove they are smart. Sometimes. But I think in this case it is valid as much of Apple software is nonsense-free.

cmelbye 15y ago

I'm convinced that Apple intentionally made the Reminders app cumbersome to make Siri's interface to create reminders more attractive. Apple simply knows too much about good design to have made an app this awkward without it being intentional.

masklinn 15y ago
> Apple simply knows too much about good design to have made an app this awkward without it being intentional. It is intentional. It's intended that Reminders is first and foremost a to-do list, hence the basic entry mode being entering a lists of things to do. Notice: * You don't need to tap "+" to create a new task, you can tap the empty line at the end of a list * Pressing the "return" key on the virtual keyboard drops you to a new task creation Everything else (timed reminders, geofencing, notes, changing the list, changing the priority) is considered secondary. Reminders maps pretty directly to Mail's Todo lists. edit: after having marshalled my thoughts more, see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3265820 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3265820 tl;dr: "manual mode" reminders is a simple and fast todos list, whereas "automatic (siri)" reminders is a secretary taking your appointments, issues happen when trying to use one for the other.
arethuza 15y ago
What about iTunes for Windows then? Is its awkwardness intentional?
illumin8 15y ago
The optimist inside me hopes that what you say is true. The pessimist inside of me thinks that perhaps an app would never have been released in this sorry state under Steve's watch...
- masklinn 15y ago
  All of iOS5 was designed "under Steve's watch"...

ianstormtaylor 15y ago

Setting location reminders requires that the address be in your Contacts for someone. So forget just adding reminders for when you need to go to the store, or the pharmacy, or whatever. Deleting reminders is no easy task either since they used swipe right to change lists instead of the usual pull up a delete button. Yup, the app is horrible.

masklinn 15y ago
> Setting location reminders requires that the address be in your Contacts for someone. So forget just adding reminders for when you need to go to the store, or the pharmacy, or whatever. It's perfectly possible to add companies (and places, aliased to companies) to your address book. So it works, but you have to tell it what your pharmacy is beforehand.
- shawnc 15y ago
  And honestly to expect it to know you're at a pharmacy or a store, is silly. This is very early in the game and you're already expecting it to perform as if it'd been in the market for years.
  - masklinn 15y ago
    As with TFA, I think ianstormtaylor was talking about doing so "manually" instead of via Siri: when trying to add a location to a task/reminder, Reminders does not provide some sort of text field for the address but asks you to pick a contact from your address book (it also gives you "fast access" to your current location and your home, but that's it). Worse, I think: it does not let you create a contact from the spot either so you have to get out of Reminders, open the phone/contacts app, create a new contact, then go back to reminders and select the contact you just created. That is painful.
    - ianstormtaylor 15y ago
      Yup, exactly. And being forced to goto Contacts just makes the whole thing hell. It could have easily been implemented by entering a location into a textfield accompanied by a map, the exact same way you enter "places" everywhere else on the device and the web.

saturdaysaint 15y ago

This has been a problem with every mobile to-do list app ever, even best-in-breed stuff like Orchestra and 2Do. There are just too many things that you reasonably expect to do with a to-do - mark it off, see all of your completed tasks, delete, change the date, change the alarm, change the priority... These things seem much easier to pull off in a full web browser, so that all of the controls are revealed all the time. I think the reason that so many of these to-do list apps exist is because the workflow seems like it would be easy to nail, but it isn't. Voice is quite possibly the best solution.

epaga 15y ago

At least on ipad, you can switch the view from List to Date-based. You then have a scrollable calendar view on the left. When you tap a day, you can then type in a reminder on the right and it automatically gets added to remind you that day at 9am. Pretty nice, albeit a bit "hidden".

masklinn 15y ago
> At least on ipad, you can switch the view from List to Date-based. You can do that on iPhone as well. > You then have a scrollable calendar view on the left. Not that, but there is a "Calendar" button in the top left (lets you configure your lists in list-based view). There is also a list of the next 11 days at the bottom of the screen for quick access. > When you tap a day, you can then type in a reminder on the right and it automatically gets added to remind you that day at 9am. iPhone version behaves exactly the same.

mason55 15y ago

The worst is that even though you set the date & time for a reminder and hit "Done" you still haven't saved it; you have to hit "Done" a second time. I learned that when I missed a few reminders because I didn't hit save a second time.

raimondious 15y ago
I was expecting to read this when I clicked on the article because that's the problem I have with Reminders. I've never had an issue with the stuff they are talking about – I don't count the taps and slides because they're intuitive.

kmfrk 15y ago

The worst part of the app is that "Home" is not the default location reminder; "Current Location" is. I don't know if I am in the minority, but I think there is a benefit the the American GDP, if Apple changed the default location to "Home", instead of forcing everyone to waste their time setting it themselves.

masklinn 15y ago
FWIW, the default location behavior is coherent with the default trigger: "when I leave". I don't think I'd have more use for those defaults if they were "home" and "when I arrive".

RandallBrown 15y ago

I hate todo list apps that make me enter a bunch of bullshit just to make a task. I actually really like how easy it is to create a task in the reminders app. I often don't need an actual reminder, I just want a list.

nvk 15y ago

That's why i created a supper simple app to remind me of stuff, ended up selling a few hundred thousand, till Apple copied our name. http://itunes.apple.com/app/reminders/id389611206 http://itunes.apple.com/app/reminders/id389611206

w0utert 15y ago

I must have a very special iPhone that comes with a very special version of the reminders application, because half of the 10 steps he lists are simply not necessary, and also, the application seems respond perfectly fine to my inputs. Let me see: 1) Tap + button 2) Type reminder text, hit enter, reminder is added to the list 3) With the keyboard still up, tap the reminder text 4) Tap 'remind me' 5) Tap 'on a day', then tap the date select box that appears and select the time and date 6) Done Hardly rocket science, and I can't really imagine how you would do this with less user input. I call BS on this article.

smackfu 15y ago
Your steps are the same as his, you just numbered them differently. And there really is a second 7) Done after the 6) Done. The main inefficiency is that Remind Me is a sub-screen, even though it only has two options (On a Day and At a Location). Those could have been added to the main Details screen and then you would save at least two taps.

runjake 15y ago

So does the calendar app, and perhaps the texting app. I think that's the whole reason Siri came along, to help alleviate the shortcomings of the smartphone interface.

masklinn 15y ago
Calendar I'd give you, Apple has never been very good at those (hell, iCal became worse from Snow Leopard to Lion), but messages? What are your issues with it?
- runjake 15y ago
  The screen is small, and it's hard to type out a message while you're walking along or in a car. Granted, it's more an issue of form factor rather than a shortcoming of Apple's, but again, this is the gap that Siri is designed to close, and the whole basis for their Siri ads.

dpcan 15y ago

What an exaggeration. Seriously, was it THIS hard for him to figure out? I found it really easy. I've got all my Christmas lists in it too. I'm on 3GS - no Siri

nirvana 15y ago

One of my apps in the appstore is a reminders type app called Next Thing. Its designed for a slightly different purpose-- its meant to be left open next to your computer and keep you focused on one task at a time. You can see it here: http://pocketronic.com/ http://pocketronic.com/ With the keyboard up on the iPhone or iPod touch, there's not a lot of space for controls in the navigation bar. You often need a cancel button and a save button, and since the title traditionally goes in the middle, there are no more button spots on the bar. To solve this, we put the button in the view. Our view is of an index card given the nature of our app, and on it is a date field. But its a bit subtle, you can see it here: (not sure if this URL is stable or not.) http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/055/Purple/04/e5/da/mzl.afnjusdl.320x480-75.jpg http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/055/Purple/04/e5/da/mzl.afnj... However, since customers might not figure out that the date field can be tapped on to bring up the date picker, we also put a calendar button in the middle of the Navigation Bar. We did this by replacing the title with a custom view, in which we put the button. This is probably what Apple should do. FWIW, the hardest and most successful part of this app, in my thinking, is the date picker. You can see a screenshot of it here: http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/015/Purple/a3/6d/de/mzl.mkfrataa.320x480-75.jpg http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/015/Purple/a3/6d/de/mzl.mkfr... We haven't added iCloud to it yet because we expected reminders, being built into the OS would kill sales. But that hasn't happened, even with the advantage of being integrated into Siri. So, we'll be adding iCloud soon as I can get some spare time.