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I'm all for improving the success of local agricultural efforts, and the 2.5-acre farms held by many people in the article seems like an improvement over the gi

I'm all for improving the success of local agricultural efforts, and the 2.5-acre farms held by many people in the article seems like an improvement over the gigantic thousand-acre ones here in terms of sustainability, but it's hard for me to generalize how something like small scale thresher manufacturing would work in America. The average commercial farm in the US is a much larger operation and has millions of dollars of very high-tech machinery from my understanding.

noir_lord 4y ago
Why would you need to? Western agriculture as you point out is very different to somewhere like in the article. You fit the product to the market not the market to the product.
- 11235813213455 4y ago
  We definitely still need very large farms with big machines to feed the world; but nowadays, with climate problems, droughts, smaller and diverse farms resist better, are more productive by surface, have a better quality of soil, better quality of food, they are literally carbon sinks, it just requires more manual work
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    > it just requires more manual work Oh, is that all :-)
    - 11235813213455 4y ago
      yes but is it a problem? there are many jobs that require to walk and move your legs/arms several hours per day, e.g. cleaning, selling those farm products at markets, .., and this one is a very useful one, with a negative carbon impact There is more than enough workforce and this job is very interesting on all aspects, it's not something that breaks your back after 10years if done properly, it's just natural efforts
zdragnar 4y ago
A 2.5 acre farm in the US is a hobby farm. You might get a bit of income from canning or selling exotic meat, but I cannot imagine 2.5 acres of anything being enough for a basic income to cover land taxes, equipment, and basic essentials for the family.
- haveaniceday 4y ago
  If you have a scroll through the episodes of Country Calendar (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/country-calendar https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/country-calendar) you'll find examples of small farms definitely produce enough to make a good living.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Maybe in NZ, but some of those crops would be illegal here (mussels in particular are a protected species, and farming either native or non-native species would be extremely illegal), and the others are really commonplace. Apples, flowers, cows, we've got it all but kiwi and sheep, and there's not really much of a market for either.
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  Yeah you are right. One of the most profitable crops is cherry tomatoes and you can make $1400 per acre on a good year, $900 on average. Saffron, with optimal yields at the most expensive prices per lb, will get you $125k from 2.5 acres. My dream is to have a farm with enough crops to cover my food & maybe sell a little extra. Out of interest does anyone know a good place in Europe where that's possible for a good price?
  - vcanhoto 4y ago
    Land prices in Portugal (away from the coast and from bigger cities) are pretty cheap for western European standards. It's getting noticed though - a quick YouTube search will show you plenty of examples of expats jumping on the opportunity. IMO making a profit would be the hard part - the internal market is small and in general produce prices are low.
nyokodo 4y ago
> 2.5-acre farms held by many people in the article seems like an improvement over the gigantic thousand-acre ones here in terms of sustainability Smaller farms -may- have less vast monoculture sustainability issues. However, how do the 2.5 acre farms achieve the efficiencies that scale affords the massive farms in terms of water, energy, and fertilizer use?
- claudiulodro 4y ago
  Something like the Vietnamese VAC (garden/pond/livestock) system[1] is the ideal in terms of efficiency and complete nutrition in my opinion: > In many villages, 50-80 percent of families have the full VAC system. Figures show that 30-60 percent of income of most village families may come from the system; in many cases, it may be 100 percent. > The pond is constructed close to the house so that the domestic and kitchen wastes are drained into the fishpond. The livestock pens and garden are also situated near the pond. The 1000-5000 m2 garden includes a variety of vegetables (i.e. green onion, sweet potato, watercress, etc.) and fruits (i.e. banana, orange, peach, apricot, etc.) and other crops, including sugarcane, tea and cassava. This provides a mix of perennial and annual crops. This is all on generally less than an acre (1 acre = 4000 square meters)! Fish, crops, and livestock in one self-contained system. [1] https://www.fao.org/3/y1187e/y1187e10.htm https://www.fao.org/3/y1187e/y1187e10.htm
  - soperj 4y ago
    Where do the fish come from in these systems when they drain the ponds annually?
    - vinibrito 4y ago
      Unsure if these people specifically do it, but usually in both small and big productions we have a separate breeding pond.
  - rascul 4y ago
    Are there pictures of this? I can't seem to find any. I'm on an an acre and would love to see how others use a similar sized portion of land to do such a thing. I might get some ideas.

noir_lord 4y ago

Why would you need to? Western agriculture as you point out is very different to somewhere like in the article. You fit the product to the market not the market to the product.

11235813213455 4y ago
We definitely still need very large farms with big machines to feed the world; but nowadays, with climate problems, droughts, smaller and diverse farms resist better, are more productive by surface, have a better quality of soil, better quality of food, they are literally carbon sinks, it just requires more manual work
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  > it just requires more manual work Oh, is that all :-)
  - 11235813213455 4y ago
    yes but is it a problem? there are many jobs that require to walk and move your legs/arms several hours per day, e.g. cleaning, selling those farm products at markets, .., and this one is a very useful one, with a negative carbon impact There is more than enough workforce and this job is very interesting on all aspects, it's not something that breaks your back after 10years if done properly, it's just natural efforts

zdragnar 4y ago

A 2.5 acre farm in the US is a hobby farm. You might get a bit of income from canning or selling exotic meat, but I cannot imagine 2.5 acres of anything being enough for a basic income to cover land taxes, equipment, and basic essentials for the family.

haveaniceday 4y ago
If you have a scroll through the episodes of Country Calendar (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/country-calendar https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/country-calendar) you'll find examples of small farms definitely produce enough to make a good living.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Maybe in NZ, but some of those crops would be illegal here (mussels in particular are a protected species, and farming either native or non-native species would be extremely illegal), and the others are really commonplace. Apples, flowers, cows, we've got it all but kiwi and sheep, and there's not really much of a market for either.
EddySchauHai 4y ago
Yeah you are right. One of the most profitable crops is cherry tomatoes and you can make $1400 per acre on a good year, $900 on average. Saffron, with optimal yields at the most expensive prices per lb, will get you $125k from 2.5 acres. My dream is to have a farm with enough crops to cover my food & maybe sell a little extra. Out of interest does anyone know a good place in Europe where that's possible for a good price?
- vcanhoto 4y ago
  Land prices in Portugal (away from the coast and from bigger cities) are pretty cheap for western European standards. It's getting noticed though - a quick YouTube search will show you plenty of examples of expats jumping on the opportunity. IMO making a profit would be the hard part - the internal market is small and in general produce prices are low.

nyokodo 4y ago

> 2.5-acre farms held by many people in the article seems like an improvement over the gigantic thousand-acre ones here in terms of sustainability Smaller farms -may- have less vast monoculture sustainability issues. However, how do the 2.5 acre farms achieve the efficiencies that scale affords the massive farms in terms of water, energy, and fertilizer use?

claudiulodro 4y ago
Something like the Vietnamese VAC (garden/pond/livestock) system[1] is the ideal in terms of efficiency and complete nutrition in my opinion: > In many villages, 50-80 percent of families have the full VAC system. Figures show that 30-60 percent of income of most village families may come from the system; in many cases, it may be 100 percent. > The pond is constructed close to the house so that the domestic and kitchen wastes are drained into the fishpond. The livestock pens and garden are also situated near the pond. The 1000-5000 m2 garden includes a variety of vegetables (i.e. green onion, sweet potato, watercress, etc.) and fruits (i.e. banana, orange, peach, apricot, etc.) and other crops, including sugarcane, tea and cassava. This provides a mix of perennial and annual crops. This is all on generally less than an acre (1 acre = 4000 square meters)! Fish, crops, and livestock in one self-contained system. [1] https://www.fao.org/3/y1187e/y1187e10.htm https://www.fao.org/3/y1187e/y1187e10.htm
- soperj 4y ago
  Where do the fish come from in these systems when they drain the ponds annually?
  - vinibrito 4y ago
    Unsure if these people specifically do it, but usually in both small and big productions we have a separate breeding pond.
- rascul 4y ago
  Are there pictures of this? I can't seem to find any. I'm on an an acre and would love to see how others use a similar sized portion of land to do such a thing. I might get some ideas.