4 ms·

Because apple's ~10% of market share of the desktop market is a concern? https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-takes-90-of-arm-pc-market-4242836 https://ww

Because apple's ~10% of market share of the desktop market is a concern? https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-takes-90-of-arm-pc-market-4242836 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-takes-90-of-arm-pc... Efficiency is critical on laptops, but not really on desktops. Electricity is incredibly cheap. if you left a 300 watt desktop computer on 24x7 it would use ~$260 in electricity for the year. https://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_incandescent.htm https://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_incandescent.htm it works out to $0.72 a day, a cup of coffee costs more

jusssi 4y ago
> Electricity is incredibly cheap. Beware, this is something that might change at short notice. Starting from October I'm paying 0.28€/kWh, making the daily 7.2kWh cost 2.02€, which would indeed buy me a cardboard cup of coffee at the kiosk.
- kennend3 4y ago
  Europe? There really isn't too many reasons why electricity should have "shock pricing" like this. Here (Ontario) electricy prices are fairly flat over long time periods. https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/electricity-rates/historical-electricity-rates https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/elect... probably because once the plants are built, the cost to maintain them is fairly fixed? Off peak power is 8.2 kwh Feb 8, 2022 and was 8.7 back on Nov 1, 2016 in order for this to change, it requires government approvals so it wont be "changing at short notice".
  - kolbe 4y ago
    The Russia/Ukraine conflict is causing problems with energy production throughout Europe.
    - kennend3 4y ago
      Yes. My son is a nuclear physicist and found the whole "Germany shuts down its nuclear plants in favour of Russian gas" a strange choice. They made a choice, now they see the results of the decision? Maybe this will be a catalyst to revive nuclear? Perhaps our shitty leaders can stop the "we hate carbon" mantra and start selling our massive natural gas supplies to Europe removing the shortages?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
yourusername 4y ago
Your electricity is incredibly cheap. I'm paying $0.70 per kWh. your example costs me $1840 per year.
- ssizn 4y ago
  Maybe you should elect better politicians.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Maybe they did
    - kennend3 4y ago
      ?? They elected politicians which drove the price of electricity up and you think this is a "good thing"?
      - kube-system 4y ago
        1. Politicians have limited control over the price of power. There are many extraneous factors that influence pricing as well. 2. Politicians and their constituents often have many priorities other than electricity prices. One thing is for sure, countries with the cheapest power are definitely not countries known for their great politicians. https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/
        kennend3 4y ago
        Again, this is highly dependent on many things including how the market is structured. If your politicians are not concerned about energy policy, you did not elect the right ones. Politicians should have the same concerns as those they represent. Here (Ontario) we had the liberals who implemented many disastrous "green energy" programs including "fixed rate" contracts well above market rates. This resulted in substantial increases in our rates. The price of electricity became a major election issue and when an election year came, the Liberals were decimated. They not only lost the election, but also lost party status. Our politicians have a lot of influence over electricity rates including direct intervention: - January 18, 2022 - Fixed Electricity Price The Ontario government has announced that electricity prices are to be set at the off-peak price of 8.2 cents per kilowatt-hour, 24 hours per day for 21 days starting January 18, 2022, until the end of day February 7, 2022, for all Regulated Price Plan customers. Read the government's news release and our FAQs. -June 1, 2020 - Fixed Electricity Price The Government of Ontario introduced a fixed electricity price of 12.8 ¢/kWh for consumers paying time-of-use prices to support them while Ontario plans the safe and gradual re-opening of the province. Read the government’s news release and our FAQs If your government has zero control over your markets, maybe you should ask if this is in your best interest? Your chart proves very little. on the opposite end of the scale (expensive power) are many countries with questionable politicians as well?
dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
Efficiency is extremely important on mobile. It is important in the datacenter. And finally it's becoming important on the desktop, too. Maybe not in the USA, but in Europe the prices went by the roof. This might have some positive consequences, with people becoming more and more aware of the fact that electricity is not practically free. I'm afraid we will face a similar story with water.
- kennend3 4y ago
  Maybe you should restructure your energy market so it is not so "profit driven" to avoid shock pricing? Our electricity prices going back to 2006 : https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/electricity-rates/historical-electricity-rates https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/elect... It has gone up over time, but no "shock price hikes". To change the rate, you need government approval and politicians are not fond of hiking rates and losing votes. Basic essentials need "user fees" so there is not blatant waste, but perhaps having controls in place is a good thing? In Ontario (and most of Canada) we regulate Natural gas, electricity and water rates to prevent "gouging". Power rates in Quebec are even lower thanks to their massive hydro electric generation which is extremely cheap and this is passed to the consumers. Ontario is mostly Nuclear, which costs more to generate vs hydro hence our higher rates.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
    > Maybe you should restructure your energy market so it is not so "profit driven" to avoid shock pricing? Well, it's a long story, but in short, Germany insisted on gas from Russia for two reasons: 1) it was cheaper than from other sources, 2) politicians hoped that they can somehow civilize Putin in this way. It didn't work well, and Mrs Merkel is embarrassed by it (I don't even mention previous chancellors).
dagmx 4y ago
Electricity isn’t always cheap, but more importantly heat isn’t free to cool either. A hot or loud computer isn’t desirable in many situations and as we see hotter summers due to global warming, I see many more people already valuing efficiency
- zamalek 4y ago
  A CPU doesn't operate at TDP all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_frequency_scaling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_frequency_scaling
  - dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
    This is something that depends on software in ways that many people who should care don't.
- kennend3 4y ago
  here is our electricity prices since 2006, show me where it was "expensive". https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/electricity-rates/historical-electricity-rates https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/elect... If people value efficiency, they can buy energy efficient CPU's and not the latest and greatest high-power CPU's from AMD, which is what this thread is about?
  - dagmx 4y ago
    You do realize the entire world doesn’t live in Ontario right?

jusssi 4y ago

> Electricity is incredibly cheap. Beware, this is something that might change at short notice. Starting from October I'm paying 0.28€/kWh, making the daily 7.2kWh cost 2.02€, which would indeed buy me a cardboard cup of coffee at the kiosk.

kennend3 4y ago
Europe? There really isn't too many reasons why electricity should have "shock pricing" like this. Here (Ontario) electricy prices are fairly flat over long time periods. https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/electricity-rates/historical-electricity-rates https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/elect... probably because once the plants are built, the cost to maintain them is fairly fixed? Off peak power is 8.2 kwh Feb 8, 2022 and was 8.7 back on Nov 1, 2016 in order for this to change, it requires government approvals so it wont be "changing at short notice".
- kolbe 4y ago
  The Russia/Ukraine conflict is causing problems with energy production throughout Europe.
  - kennend3 4y ago
    Yes. My son is a nuclear physicist and found the whole "Germany shuts down its nuclear plants in favour of Russian gas" a strange choice. They made a choice, now they see the results of the decision? Maybe this will be a catalyst to revive nuclear? Perhaps our shitty leaders can stop the "we hate carbon" mantra and start selling our massive natural gas supplies to Europe removing the shortages?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

yourusername 4y ago

Your electricity is incredibly cheap. I'm paying $0.70 per kWh. your example costs me $1840 per year.

ssizn 4y ago
Maybe you should elect better politicians.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Maybe they did
  - kennend3 4y ago
    ?? They elected politicians which drove the price of electricity up and you think this is a "good thing"?
    - kube-system 4y ago
      1. Politicians have limited control over the price of power. There are many extraneous factors that influence pricing as well. 2. Politicians and their constituents often have many priorities other than electricity prices. One thing is for sure, countries with the cheapest power are definitely not countries known for their great politicians. https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/
      - kennend3 4y ago
        Again, this is highly dependent on many things including how the market is structured. If your politicians are not concerned about energy policy, you did not elect the right ones. Politicians should have the same concerns as those they represent. Here (Ontario) we had the liberals who implemented many disastrous "green energy" programs including "fixed rate" contracts well above market rates. This resulted in substantial increases in our rates. The price of electricity became a major election issue and when an election year came, the Liberals were decimated. They not only lost the election, but also lost party status. Our politicians have a lot of influence over electricity rates including direct intervention: - January 18, 2022 - Fixed Electricity Price The Ontario government has announced that electricity prices are to be set at the off-peak price of 8.2 cents per kilowatt-hour, 24 hours per day for 21 days starting January 18, 2022, until the end of day February 7, 2022, for all Regulated Price Plan customers. Read the government's news release and our FAQs. -June 1, 2020 - Fixed Electricity Price The Government of Ontario introduced a fixed electricity price of 12.8 ¢/kWh for consumers paying time-of-use prices to support them while Ontario plans the safe and gradual re-opening of the province. Read the government’s news release and our FAQs If your government has zero control over your markets, maybe you should ask if this is in your best interest? Your chart proves very little. on the opposite end of the scale (expensive power) are many countries with questionable politicians as well?

dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago

Efficiency is extremely important on mobile. It is important in the datacenter. And finally it's becoming important on the desktop, too. Maybe not in the USA, but in Europe the prices went by the roof. This might have some positive consequences, with people becoming more and more aware of the fact that electricity is not practically free. I'm afraid we will face a similar story with water.

kennend3 4y ago
Maybe you should restructure your energy market so it is not so "profit driven" to avoid shock pricing? Our electricity prices going back to 2006 : https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/electricity-rates/historical-electricity-rates https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/elect... It has gone up over time, but no "shock price hikes". To change the rate, you need government approval and politicians are not fond of hiking rates and losing votes. Basic essentials need "user fees" so there is not blatant waste, but perhaps having controls in place is a good thing? In Ontario (and most of Canada) we regulate Natural gas, electricity and water rates to prevent "gouging". Power rates in Quebec are even lower thanks to their massive hydro electric generation which is extremely cheap and this is passed to the consumers. Ontario is mostly Nuclear, which costs more to generate vs hydro hence our higher rates.
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  > Maybe you should restructure your energy market so it is not so "profit driven" to avoid shock pricing? Well, it's a long story, but in short, Germany insisted on gas from Russia for two reasons: 1) it was cheaper than from other sources, 2) politicians hoped that they can somehow civilize Putin in this way. It didn't work well, and Mrs Merkel is embarrassed by it (I don't even mention previous chancellors).

dagmx 4y ago

Electricity isn’t always cheap, but more importantly heat isn’t free to cool either. A hot or loud computer isn’t desirable in many situations and as we see hotter summers due to global warming, I see many more people already valuing efficiency

zamalek 4y ago
A CPU doesn't operate at TDP all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_frequency_scaling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_frequency_scaling
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  This is something that depends on software in ways that many people who should care don't.
kennend3 4y ago
here is our electricity prices since 2006, show me where it was "expensive". https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/electricity-rates/historical-electricity-rates https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/elect... If people value efficiency, they can buy energy efficient CPU's and not the latest and greatest high-power CPU's from AMD, which is what this thread is about?
- dagmx 4y ago
  You do realize the entire world doesn’t live in Ontario right?