6 ms·

Making a value judgement on someones financial ambition is a little ... weak. Does it really matter? I'm on £200k gross in the UK, outside London ... but i'm n

Making a value judgement on someones financial ambition is a little ... weak. Does it really matter? I'm on £200k gross in the UK, outside London ... but i'm not done climbing that mountain. Of course £200k is "enough" for anyone, but that doesn't mean you can't aim higher. Ambition should be celebrated

rhn_mk1 4y ago
I can get behind celebrating ambition, but only if it doesn't as a side effect involve widening wage inequality in the society.
- tdehnel 4y ago
  Oh stop it. Every time we make progress there will be some unequal effect. Some people will benefit and others will lose out. We should do our best to balance the trade offs, but to say someone shouldn’t be ambitious if there is some unequal effect is preposterous and pessimistic.
- CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
  I'm reminded of Margaret Thatcher's response to this: "He'd rather the poor were poorer, as long as the rich were less rich."[1] Every ethical dollar earned is a byproduct of value creation. Maybe you meant something more like "as long as he's not ripping off his customers," but otherwise that's an odd thing to say in response to someone who makes good money but is still looking for side jobs. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c&t=48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c&t=48s
  - cardanome 4y ago
    - scatters 4y ago
      > artificially increasing supply of labor Say's Law: supply creates its own demand. Or in this specific case, this is the lump-of-labor fallacy. Perhaps if the left had some basic understanding of economics past Marx, they wouldn't be blinded by their comically unreasoning hatred of Thatcher.
    - CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
      Did you unironically make an ad hominem? Well it sounds like you got it figured out what's best for everyone's health, ethics, and economics. Thankfully we have wise people to tell us what we can and can't work on...
- impossiblefork 4y ago
  Why does wage inequality matter? Inequality isn't strongly driven by wages, but is by capital income. Personally, the way I see it, the more money goes to wages, the better, and if that's because some guy is earning millions a year, I still think it's good. Income from people starting new companies, that's fine too. What's bad is rent extraction, ossification, monopolies and private institutions that have power over people.
giantg2 4y ago
"Ambition should be celebrated" I might agree with this depending on what the specific goal is. But why should ambition be generally celebrated? There is certainly ambition that has brought about improvement in life. There has also been ambition applied to the wrong ends or failing that has brought suffering. I'm not sold on the idea that the goal of continually increasing comp above an already luxurious level is meaningful or worth a third party celebrating. I especially feel this way about our industry where comp seems detached from the contributions are not easily attributed/calculated.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  It is perfectly valid to believe that OP is probably overpaid in their day job, and also to believe that they are entitled to seek a side gig if they prefer.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Ok... that has nothing to do with my comment. Of course they're entitled to want a side gig. But why is ambition something to be celebrated, especially in the context of this example?
    - ghaff 4y ago
      >Of course they're entitled to seek a side gig. With the caveat that no small number of companies are not OK with that if it could be perceived as competitive in any way.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        Thanks, I changed it to "want".
- yojo 4y ago
  In theory (and in a well functioning system), ambition in a populace leads to GDP growth as ambitious people seek ways to make more money by doing higher value work. This in turn leads to a higher standard of living, possibly for everyone if you redistribute some of the surplus via taxation schemes. Personally (and more selfishly), I tried to raise my salary to be able to afford not working for extended periods of time.
xwdv 4y ago
Ambition is the enemy of consistency.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  10s of thousands of years of integrated ambition have helped ensure that we are not consistently living outdoors.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  So?
Joeboy 4y ago
I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why someone on £200k would want to work more. maybe there's a good reason, like they're an "earn to give" person, or some actual ambition the money will help fulfill, or some expensive health need etc. Maybe they'd like to spend less time with their family. Just wanting to exchange more of your life for more money seems weird to me, if you're already in a position to be able to live in luxury.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  Two viable possibilities: 1. It's about the money, because you never know when you may have a 5-10 year underproductive period due to health/other unforeseen emergency. 2. It's not about the money, it's about the experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more.
  - Joeboy 4y ago
    > it's about the experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more To me, a side gig means accomplishing more of what someone else wants, with the trade-off of being less able to accomplish (or learn about, or distract yourself with) what you want. Which seems like an odd thing to want unless you need the money. I suppose for some people having a £200k income and not needing the money seem less synonymous than they do to me.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      Sometimes people see others' goals as helpful to their own. See: John Carmack at FB.
- returningfory2 4y ago
  In the neighborhood of New York City I live in, buying a 2 bedroom apartment requires you to have a higher yearly income than $250k (~= £200k). The simple desires of (a) wanting space for family and (b) wanting to live in a specific place, can push you to want to earn higher salaries.
goodpoint 4y ago
> Ambition should be celebrated Only if you mean skill growth and self improvement. But pure greed - no, we have more than enough of that.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  I want to work hard at my axe throwing skills so I can hit targets more accurately. That will help me become a better axe murderer since people are less likely to see me. Still wanna celebrate my skill growth?
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    You are confusing skills vs intentions. They are, obviously, two completely different things.
porker 4y ago
Share the secret of "£200k gross in the UK, outside London" please because I've never found that outside London and I hate that city :)
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  Be a contractor charging high day rates in a niche nobody else wants to work in.

rhn_mk1 4y ago

I can get behind celebrating ambition, but only if it doesn't as a side effect involve widening wage inequality in the society.

tdehnel 4y ago
Oh stop it. Every time we make progress there will be some unequal effect. Some people will benefit and others will lose out. We should do our best to balance the trade offs, but to say someone shouldn’t be ambitious if there is some unequal effect is preposterous and pessimistic.
CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
I'm reminded of Margaret Thatcher's response to this: "He'd rather the poor were poorer, as long as the rich were less rich."[1] Every ethical dollar earned is a byproduct of value creation. Maybe you meant something more like "as long as he's not ripping off his customers," but otherwise that's an odd thing to say in response to someone who makes good money but is still looking for side jobs. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c&t=48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c&t=48s
- cardanome 4y ago
  - scatters 4y ago
    > artificially increasing supply of labor Say's Law: supply creates its own demand. Or in this specific case, this is the lump-of-labor fallacy. Perhaps if the left had some basic understanding of economics past Marx, they wouldn't be blinded by their comically unreasoning hatred of Thatcher.
  - CrazyPyroLinux 4y ago
    Did you unironically make an ad hominem? Well it sounds like you got it figured out what's best for everyone's health, ethics, and economics. Thankfully we have wise people to tell us what we can and can't work on...
impossiblefork 4y ago
Why does wage inequality matter? Inequality isn't strongly driven by wages, but is by capital income. Personally, the way I see it, the more money goes to wages, the better, and if that's because some guy is earning millions a year, I still think it's good. Income from people starting new companies, that's fine too. What's bad is rent extraction, ossification, monopolies and private institutions that have power over people.

giantg2 4y ago

"Ambition should be celebrated" I might agree with this depending on what the specific goal is. But why should ambition be generally celebrated? There is certainly ambition that has brought about improvement in life. There has also been ambition applied to the wrong ends or failing that has brought suffering. I'm not sold on the idea that the goal of continually increasing comp above an already luxurious level is meaningful or worth a third party celebrating. I especially feel this way about our industry where comp seems detached from the contributions are not easily attributed/calculated.

nerdponx 4y ago
It is perfectly valid to believe that OP is probably overpaid in their day job, and also to believe that they are entitled to seek a side gig if they prefer.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Ok... that has nothing to do with my comment. Of course they're entitled to want a side gig. But why is ambition something to be celebrated, especially in the context of this example?
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >Of course they're entitled to seek a side gig. With the caveat that no small number of companies are not OK with that if it could be perceived as competitive in any way.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Thanks, I changed it to "want".
yojo 4y ago
In theory (and in a well functioning system), ambition in a populace leads to GDP growth as ambitious people seek ways to make more money by doing higher value work. This in turn leads to a higher standard of living, possibly for everyone if you redistribute some of the surplus via taxation schemes. Personally (and more selfishly), I tried to raise my salary to be able to afford not working for extended periods of time.

xwdv 4y ago

Ambition is the enemy of consistency.

sokoloff 4y ago
10s of thousands of years of integrated ambition have helped ensure that we are not consistently living outdoors.
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
So?

Joeboy 4y ago

I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why someone on £200k would want to work more. maybe there's a good reason, like they're an "earn to give" person, or some actual ambition the money will help fulfill, or some expensive health need etc. Maybe they'd like to spend less time with their family. Just wanting to exchange more of your life for more money seems weird to me, if you're already in a position to be able to live in luxury.

aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
Two viable possibilities: 1. It's about the money, because you never know when you may have a 5-10 year underproductive period due to health/other unforeseen emergency. 2. It's not about the money, it's about the experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more.
- Joeboy 4y ago
  > it's about the experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more To me, a side gig means accomplishing more of what someone else wants, with the trade-off of being less able to accomplish (or learn about, or distract yourself with) what you want. Which seems like an odd thing to want unless you need the money. I suppose for some people having a £200k income and not needing the money seem less synonymous than they do to me.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    Sometimes people see others' goals as helpful to their own. See: John Carmack at FB.
returningfory2 4y ago
In the neighborhood of New York City I live in, buying a 2 bedroom apartment requires you to have a higher yearly income than $250k (~= £200k). The simple desires of (a) wanting space for family and (b) wanting to live in a specific place, can push you to want to earn higher salaries.

goodpoint 4y ago

> Ambition should be celebrated Only if you mean skill growth and self improvement. But pure greed - no, we have more than enough of that.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
I want to work hard at my axe throwing skills so I can hit targets more accurately. That will help me become a better axe murderer since people are less likely to see me. Still wanna celebrate my skill growth?
- goodpoint 4y ago
  You are confusing skills vs intentions. They are, obviously, two completely different things.

porker 4y ago

Share the secret of "£200k gross in the UK, outside London" please because I've never found that outside London and I hate that city :)

sirsinsalot 4y ago
Be a contractor charging high day rates in a niche nobody else wants to work in.