5 ms·

No. Is discord, reddit, hacker news e2ee? No, but they are still products people want to use.

croes 4y ago
Do you use discord, reddit, hacker news for private communication? BTW reddit and Hackernews are E2EE, it's just that one E is public.
- wruza 4y ago
  What is your HN key fingerprint? I’d like to compare it to know if our messaging is secure.
  - croes 4y ago
    I'm not messaging to you but to HN via E2E https connection. You can't read that messages as they are transported, you can read them afterwards because HN makes them public not because my message wasn't send encrypted.
    - sequoia 4y ago
      You seem to be mistaken about what the "ends" refer to in end to end encryption. If I whisper something in my friend's ear and she whispers it into your ear, that is not a secret message between you and me even if each "hop" was private. E2E means no intermediaries see the plaintext, only the original sender and ultimate recipient see the plaintext. HN is not the recipient of your message, it's an intermediary.
      - hunter2_ 4y ago
        With HTTPS alone, I can assure you that HN is, indeed, the recipient/end. If you post something like a PGP-encrypted message on HN, now you've got a situation where HN is no longer a recipient/end. I think the better point to make is that we all collectively agree to refrain from using the term "end" (as in E2EE) in situations like the former, as it's misleading despite being accurate; please only use it for the latter.
        croes 4y ago
        Doesn't it depend on the application? Messenger like the telegram are something different than sites like HN. I am aware that I send my messages to HN, they are not forwarded to you but you open the HN page to read my response. HN is more like a message board with message hierarchy. The communication is public, the transmission path is encrypted.
      - croes 4y ago
        I am aware that I send my messages to HN, they are not forwarded to you but you open the HN page to read my response. HN is more like a message board with message hierarchy. The communication is public, the transmission path is encrypted. It's more like whispering in your friends ear and she/he writes in down and pins it to a public board. My communication was private, but he/she is a chatterbox and I'm well aware of that.
      - croes 4y ago
        BTW I didn't receive your reply but had to look it up on HN, so I maybe be your intended recipient but technically I'm not.
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  What does that even mean?
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    That your message is transferred from your computer to the recipient, HN's servers, encrypted. At no point should anyone in the middle be able to read your message. After arrival, HN then publishes it on a public forum for everyone to see.
    - yunohn 4y ago
      Ah yes, the Zoom definition of E2EE! /s https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Kind of, but as they aren't lying about allowing private conversations not really. More saying https is end to end encrypted, but what one end does with that data isn't necessarily private.
        _Algernon_ 4y ago
        https on its own isn't e2ee: >End-to-end encryption (E2EE) is a system of communication where *only the communicating users can read the messages*. In principle, it prevents potential eavesdroppers – including telecom providers, Internet providers, malicious actors, *and even the provider of the communication service* – from being able to access the cryptographic keys needed to decrypt the conversation.[1] If the server can read the content, it isn't end-to-end encryption. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_encryption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_encryption
        boomboomsubban 4y ago

Do you use discord, reddit, hacker news for private communication? BTW reddit and Hackernews are E2EE, it's just that one E is public.

wruza 4y ago
What is your HN key fingerprint? I’d like to compare it to know if our messaging is secure.
- croes 4y ago
  I'm not messaging to you but to HN via E2E https connection. You can't read that messages as they are transported, you can read them afterwards because HN makes them public not because my message wasn't send encrypted.
  - sequoia 4y ago
    You seem to be mistaken about what the "ends" refer to in end to end encryption. If I whisper something in my friend's ear and she whispers it into your ear, that is not a secret message between you and me even if each "hop" was private. E2E means no intermediaries see the plaintext, only the original sender and ultimate recipient see the plaintext. HN is not the recipient of your message, it's an intermediary.
    - hunter2_ 4y ago
      With HTTPS alone, I can assure you that HN is, indeed, the recipient/end. If you post something like a PGP-encrypted message on HN, now you've got a situation where HN is no longer a recipient/end. I think the better point to make is that we all collectively agree to refrain from using the term "end" (as in E2EE) in situations like the former, as it's misleading despite being accurate; please only use it for the latter.
      - croes 4y ago
        Doesn't it depend on the application? Messenger like the telegram are something different than sites like HN. I am aware that I send my messages to HN, they are not forwarded to you but you open the HN page to read my response. HN is more like a message board with message hierarchy. The communication is public, the transmission path is encrypted.
    - croes 4y ago
      I am aware that I send my messages to HN, they are not forwarded to you but you open the HN page to read my response. HN is more like a message board with message hierarchy. The communication is public, the transmission path is encrypted. It's more like whispering in your friends ear and she/he writes in down and pins it to a public board. My communication was private, but he/she is a chatterbox and I'm well aware of that.
    - croes 4y ago
      BTW I didn't receive your reply but had to look it up on HN, so I maybe be your intended recipient but technically I'm not.
_Algernon_ 4y ago
What does that even mean?
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  That your message is transferred from your computer to the recipient, HN's servers, encrypted. At no point should anyone in the middle be able to read your message. After arrival, HN then publishes it on a public forum for everyone to see.
  - yunohn 4y ago
    Ah yes, the Zoom definition of E2EE! /s https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      Kind of, but as they aren't lying about allowing private conversations not really. More saying https is end to end encrypted, but what one end does with that data isn't necessarily private.
      - _Algernon_ 4y ago
        https on its own isn't e2ee: >End-to-end encryption (E2EE) is a system of communication where *only the communicating users can read the messages*. In principle, it prevents potential eavesdroppers – including telecom providers, Internet providers, malicious actors, *and even the provider of the communication service* – from being able to access the cryptographic keys needed to decrypt the conversation.[1] If the server can read the content, it isn't end-to-end encryption. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_encryption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_encryption
        boomboomsubban 4y ago