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This can be mitigated by incorporating and hosting in a country that has a government that doesn’t do this.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dewey 4y ago
Do you know any countries where this actually works? Usually if a powerful country wants something from a small supposedly independent country, this doesn't really apply anymore. One well documented example is how the US lobbied Sweden into raiding The Pirate Bay (https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-investigator-to-cash-in-at-warner-bros-080423/ https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-investigator-to-cash-in-...)
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  The Pirate Bay was openly defying copyright as defined in just about every country except Sweden with barely any legitimate use. It’s a household name for lawlessness. That’s really not comparable to a vpn service if a significant proportion of users are using it to legitimately protect against privacy invasion when using an open WiFi network.
  - dewey 4y ago
    > if a significant proportion of users are using it to legitimately protect against privacy invasion when using an open WiFi network How do you know? It could also just be "terrorism" and "child pornography" and that's often reason enough. Similar to the current discussion about banning Telegram in Germany: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/01/26/germany-considers-banning-telegram-app-accused-of-facilitating-hate-speech https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/01/26/germany-consid...
    - tinus_hn 4y ago
      You don’t need to actually know, it’s enough to extrapolate from their own advertising material and the general public sentiment. Besides, if it’s “terrorism” and “child pornography” the vpn endpoints would attract attention quickly enough. It’s not like a VPN is a magical anonymous entry into the internet, it just changes the location and mixes your traffic with other customers’.
      - dewey 4y ago
        > You don’t need to actually know, it’s enough to extrapolate from their own advertising material and the general public sentiment. I'm pretty sure if someone is determined enough to shut down a service or force them to add logging they don't really care about the marketing material of said service. Just like EncroChat didn't brand themselves as phone brand for organized crime. I there's an entity that wants WireGuard to add logging they'll make up a "terrorism" reason and all the existing "anti-terrorism" laws will open many doors to do just that.
        tinus_hn 4y ago
        Sure but with no evidence either way the task of proving it to a judge, politicians or the general public could be done pretty effectively using the companies marketing material or general public sentiment. Encrochat was never really taken down, it took itself down because it was cracked and so lost its sole asset, the secrecy of the communications.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Do you know any countries where this actually works? Usually if a powerful country wants something from a small supposedly independent country, this doesn't really apply anymore. One well documented example is how the US lobbied Sweden into raiding The Pirate Bay (https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-investigator-to-cash-in-at-warner-bros-080423/ https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-investigator-to-cash-in-...)

tinus_hn 4y ago
The Pirate Bay was openly defying copyright as defined in just about every country except Sweden with barely any legitimate use. It’s a household name for lawlessness. That’s really not comparable to a vpn service if a significant proportion of users are using it to legitimately protect against privacy invasion when using an open WiFi network.
- dewey 4y ago
  > if a significant proportion of users are using it to legitimately protect against privacy invasion when using an open WiFi network How do you know? It could also just be "terrorism" and "child pornography" and that's often reason enough. Similar to the current discussion about banning Telegram in Germany: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/01/26/germany-considers-banning-telegram-app-accused-of-facilitating-hate-speech https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/01/26/germany-consid...
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    You don’t need to actually know, it’s enough to extrapolate from their own advertising material and the general public sentiment. Besides, if it’s “terrorism” and “child pornography” the vpn endpoints would attract attention quickly enough. It’s not like a VPN is a magical anonymous entry into the internet, it just changes the location and mixes your traffic with other customers’.
    - dewey 4y ago
      > You don’t need to actually know, it’s enough to extrapolate from their own advertising material and the general public sentiment. I'm pretty sure if someone is determined enough to shut down a service or force them to add logging they don't really care about the marketing material of said service. Just like EncroChat didn't brand themselves as phone brand for organized crime. I there's an entity that wants WireGuard to add logging they'll make up a "terrorism" reason and all the existing "anti-terrorism" laws will open many doors to do just that.
      - tinus_hn 4y ago
        Sure but with no evidence either way the task of proving it to a judge, politicians or the general public could be done pretty effectively using the companies marketing material or general public sentiment. Encrochat was never really taken down, it took itself down because it was cracked and so lost its sole asset, the secrecy of the communications.