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Why I don’t care about it stealing or not you job - because it does get me what I need without having to go the all the lint story how special illustrators work

by larodi 4y ago

Why I don’t care about it stealing or not you job - because it does get me what I need without having to go the all the lint story how special illustrators work is.

ok_dad 4y ago
They came for the X but I was not an X…
- version_five 4y ago
  You appear to be trying to Godwin a discussion about automated picture drawing... even accounting for how your carelessly your analogy normally gets used, I'd say you're reaching
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    You appear to have taken my intent wrongly. I meant that eventually this tech may come for us super special developers, too, in some aspect. I could imagine one good developer doing the work of several once code models are perfected. The commenter I replied to had zero respect for the effects this tech might have on real humans.
bitmover 4y ago
I’m always suprised by the disdain on HN for artists, like really? Paying an artist a living wage is what’s wrong with the world today?
- xoz 4y ago
  It's not disdain for artists. It's the notion that artists' works are inherently valuable or worthy of a 'living wage'. They are unfortunately not, nor is anyone's labor inherently valuable.
- version_five 4y ago
  There is not some universal right to get paid for things you like to do. Pay is a transaction between someone who wants something and someone who can provide it. I once saw a Ted Talk by a busker who was a mime or something and was calling what they do "work" (and was complaining about people who didn't respect that). I found it ridiculous because effectively they are a beggar, they are doing what they want to do and hoping someone gives them money, and in some cases, feeling entitled to it. I think it's this perception of entitlement (real or imagined) that rubs people the wrong way about artists, at least ones complaining about not getting paid. If you want someone to give you money, do something people want. The universe doesn't owe you a business model. Along the same lines, weavers and scribes and travel agents and a million other professions have moved on. Automating low value art is not any different, nobody owes you anything.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > a busker who was a mime or something and was calling what they do "work" How is it not work? I mean, they are providing a service and then wanting money. The money is provided after the service and 100% voluntary, but does that make it less of a job than a waiter with a base pay of $2.15 an hour? That guaranteed $4,300 a year separates a job from a not-job?
- Kalium 4y ago
  If I want a bit of clip art for a presentation or stock image for a website, is it disdainful to say it's irrelevant to me if it was made by a living human or a computer? I want the thing. An artist getting paid is a means to an end for this purpose. To you and others, the artist getting paid might be the end. That's fine for you, but I may not have reason to care.
- bergenty 4y ago
  It’s like the disdain for servers complaining about tips. It’s not part of the bill so it rubs people the wrong way because it feels entitled.
rvz 4y ago
"It doesn't affect my job yet because I'm not an artist, so I don't care". Yet, we see managers at software companies off-shoring for cheap contractor coding sweatshops in the South East of the world and on the site, which HNers here see that as a 'problem' and is hated on. Well guess what? Copilot will make it worse and will have cheap software shops generating code / project templates and getting more for less rather than employing an expensive full time typical western software engineer. Open source will just accelerate the drive down against closed source alternatives as well. The start of the race to the bottom, Then it would be a problem for software engineers, software companies, etc. Open source alternatives is already eating itself and closed-source alternative and tools like Copilot used by contractors will just accelerate this much quicker. That would then be your problem.
orbital-decay 4y ago
You seem to be replying to the headline in a knee-jerk manner. The article tries to communicate that the natural language is inherently poor at giving directions for artistic work. It's a valuable observation by an expert, and as someone who studies arts as a hobby I absolutely agree. Text-to-image isn't going to change anything on its own; higher order tools are needed.

by larodi 4y ago

Why I don’t care about it stealing or not you job - because it does get me what I need without having to go the all the lint story how special illustrators work is.

ok_dad 4y ago

They came for the X but I was not an X…

version_five 4y ago
You appear to be trying to Godwin a discussion about automated picture drawing... even accounting for how your carelessly your analogy normally gets used, I'd say you're reaching
- ok_dad 4y ago
  You appear to have taken my intent wrongly. I meant that eventually this tech may come for us super special developers, too, in some aspect. I could imagine one good developer doing the work of several once code models are perfected. The commenter I replied to had zero respect for the effects this tech might have on real humans.

bitmover 4y ago

I’m always suprised by the disdain on HN for artists, like really? Paying an artist a living wage is what’s wrong with the world today?

xoz 4y ago
It's not disdain for artists. It's the notion that artists' works are inherently valuable or worthy of a 'living wage'. They are unfortunately not, nor is anyone's labor inherently valuable.
version_five 4y ago
There is not some universal right to get paid for things you like to do. Pay is a transaction between someone who wants something and someone who can provide it. I once saw a Ted Talk by a busker who was a mime or something and was calling what they do "work" (and was complaining about people who didn't respect that). I found it ridiculous because effectively they are a beggar, they are doing what they want to do and hoping someone gives them money, and in some cases, feeling entitled to it. I think it's this perception of entitlement (real or imagined) that rubs people the wrong way about artists, at least ones complaining about not getting paid. If you want someone to give you money, do something people want. The universe doesn't owe you a business model. Along the same lines, weavers and scribes and travel agents and a million other professions have moved on. Automating low value art is not any different, nobody owes you anything.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > a busker who was a mime or something and was calling what they do "work" How is it not work? I mean, they are providing a service and then wanting money. The money is provided after the service and 100% voluntary, but does that make it less of a job than a waiter with a base pay of $2.15 an hour? That guaranteed $4,300 a year separates a job from a not-job?
Kalium 4y ago
If I want a bit of clip art for a presentation or stock image for a website, is it disdainful to say it's irrelevant to me if it was made by a living human or a computer? I want the thing. An artist getting paid is a means to an end for this purpose. To you and others, the artist getting paid might be the end. That's fine for you, but I may not have reason to care.
bergenty 4y ago
It’s like the disdain for servers complaining about tips. It’s not part of the bill so it rubs people the wrong way because it feels entitled.

rvz 4y ago

"It doesn't affect my job yet because I'm not an artist, so I don't care". Yet, we see managers at software companies off-shoring for cheap contractor coding sweatshops in the South East of the world and on the site, which HNers here see that as a 'problem' and is hated on. Well guess what? Copilot will make it worse and will have cheap software shops generating code / project templates and getting more for less rather than employing an expensive full time typical western software engineer. Open source will just accelerate the drive down against closed source alternatives as well. The start of the race to the bottom, Then it would be a problem for software engineers, software companies, etc. Open source alternatives is already eating itself and closed-source alternative and tools like Copilot used by contractors will just accelerate this much quicker. That would then be your problem.

orbital-decay 4y ago

You seem to be replying to the headline in a knee-jerk manner. The article tries to communicate that the natural language is inherently poor at giving directions for artistic work. It's a valuable observation by an expert, and as someone who studies arts as a hobby I absolutely agree. Text-to-image isn't going to change anything on its own; higher order tools are needed.