4 ms·

Got any real legitimate sources? How can one "steal" something as complicated as 7nm? Did SMIC find a full manual on literally hundreds of thousands of small l

Got any real legitimate sources? How can one "steal" something as complicated as 7nm? Did SMIC find a full manual on literally hundreds of thousands of small little decisions that go into making something as complicated as advanced chip manufacturing? Perhaps they hired people from TSMC? Maybe paid them more? Seems like capitalism then. Also, this is what happens when the US deny China tech. Yes, they'll fall behind shortly but they have the manpower, will, and intelligence to fill the gap sooner or later. If the US wants to maintain tech advantage, open up immigration and make it super easy for intelligent people to immigrate and live here. And welcome them instead of being racists to them so they stay.

cromwellian 4y ago
TechInsights reverse engineered one of SMIC’s 7nm ASICS and claims a lot of similarities with TSMC’s N7 process. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-process-is-reportedly-copied-from-tsmc-tech https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-...
- senttoschool 4y ago
  I haven't read the actual TechInsights report. Did they plainly accuse SMIC for copying or simply stated that some parts of the node are similar? I see that Tomshardware has added additional commentary to make it seem like TechInsights' report is evidence that SMIC has copied TSMC. Western media has a way of spinning any advancement China makes as copying the west. Perhaps this is one way for westerners to feel superior and deny that the Chinese are capable of similar feats.
  - NLPlatypus 4y ago
    China is capable. But, this would be SMIC’s third time being caught stealing from TSMC. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-smic-lawsuit/california-jury-finds-smic-stole-trade-secrets-idUSTRE5A26CA20091103 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-smic-lawsuit/california-j...
- jpgvm 4y ago
  Copy or not, if it bears resemblance to TSMC N7 that is very impressive.
linksnapzz 4y ago
"If the US wants to maintain tech advantage, it'd better stop being so American!"
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Walk around Silicon Valley a little. How many high tech workers, CEOs, and founders are immigrants or children of immigrants? If I have to guess, I'd probably say 80%.
  - linksnapzz 4y ago
    Today's Silicon Valley: the blueprint for a successful civilization. Are 80% of Guangzhou's high tech workers, CEOs and founders immigrants?
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      Nope. As far as I know, they've done everything with almost all internal talent.
      - linksnapzz 4y ago
        Fascinating. No need for immigrants at all. I wonder why...
        sangnoir 4y ago
        Having your pick of talent from a population of 1.2B people would be my first guess
        linksnapzz 4y ago
        The US has ~300 million. Surely that's a sufficient pool to provide all the personnel needed.
dontlaugh 4y ago
They did hire TSMC staff and got sued on that pretext. They settled.
Qem 4y ago
> If the US wants to maintain tech advantage, open up immigration and make it super easy for intelligent people to immigrate and live here. And welcome them instead of being racists to them so they stay. Worked fine in WWII. It's in time somebody reinvent this wheel.
- vkazanov 4y ago
  Apart from the wheel there is a second ingredient to your recipe that is not as easy... we're getting close though.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  I'm wondering if you were sarcastically hinting at Japanese internment camps, or making a straight reference to Operation Paperclip (that procured services of Nazi scientist, but that was after WWII)
roenxi 4y ago
It goes beyond that to some pretty profound issues of sovereignty. Does one country have the right to ban a second from bettering itself by nonviolent means? The whole foundation of IP law is pretty shaky. We've seen fast progress in places that ignore it (eg, open source software, Chinese manufacturing). The argument for why it is fundamentally a good thing are very questionable. In this case, it is a tool to cripple the power of the government of 20% of the world. If China wants to ignore IP law because it is holding them back, who has the right to say no? I wish my government would loosen up on IP law.
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
  The US has historically been flexible with foreign IP when it suited the US's interests.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    Oh,but Samuel Slater was many lifetimes ago; after reaping the benefits, we have evolved and now know that it is wrong. /s.

cromwellian 4y ago

TechInsights reverse engineered one of SMIC’s 7nm ASICS and claims a lot of similarities with TSMC’s N7 process. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-process-is-reportedly-copied-from-tsmc-tech https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-...

senttoschool 4y ago
I haven't read the actual TechInsights report. Did they plainly accuse SMIC for copying or simply stated that some parts of the node are similar? I see that Tomshardware has added additional commentary to make it seem like TechInsights' report is evidence that SMIC has copied TSMC. Western media has a way of spinning any advancement China makes as copying the west. Perhaps this is one way for westerners to feel superior and deny that the Chinese are capable of similar feats.
- NLPlatypus 4y ago
  China is capable. But, this would be SMIC’s third time being caught stealing from TSMC. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-smic-lawsuit/california-jury-finds-smic-stole-trade-secrets-idUSTRE5A26CA20091103 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-smic-lawsuit/california-j...
jpgvm 4y ago
Copy or not, if it bears resemblance to TSMC N7 that is very impressive.

linksnapzz 4y ago

"If the US wants to maintain tech advantage, it'd better stop being so American!"

senttoschool 4y ago
Walk around Silicon Valley a little. How many high tech workers, CEOs, and founders are immigrants or children of immigrants? If I have to guess, I'd probably say 80%.
- linksnapzz 4y ago
  Today's Silicon Valley: the blueprint for a successful civilization. Are 80% of Guangzhou's high tech workers, CEOs and founders immigrants?
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    Nope. As far as I know, they've done everything with almost all internal talent.
    - linksnapzz 4y ago
      Fascinating. No need for immigrants at all. I wonder why...
      - sangnoir 4y ago
        Having your pick of talent from a population of 1.2B people would be my first guess
        linksnapzz 4y ago
        The US has ~300 million. Surely that's a sufficient pool to provide all the personnel needed.

dontlaugh 4y ago

They did hire TSMC staff and got sued on that pretext. They settled.

Qem 4y ago

> If the US wants to maintain tech advantage, open up immigration and make it super easy for intelligent people to immigrate and live here. And welcome them instead of being racists to them so they stay. Worked fine in WWII. It's in time somebody reinvent this wheel.

vkazanov 4y ago
Apart from the wheel there is a second ingredient to your recipe that is not as easy... we're getting close though.
sangnoir 4y ago
I'm wondering if you were sarcastically hinting at Japanese internment camps, or making a straight reference to Operation Paperclip (that procured services of Nazi scientist, but that was after WWII)

roenxi 4y ago

It goes beyond that to some pretty profound issues of sovereignty. Does one country have the right to ban a second from bettering itself by nonviolent means? The whole foundation of IP law is pretty shaky. We've seen fast progress in places that ignore it (eg, open source software, Chinese manufacturing). The argument for why it is fundamentally a good thing are very questionable. In this case, it is a tool to cripple the power of the government of 20% of the world. If China wants to ignore IP law because it is holding them back, who has the right to say no? I wish my government would loosen up on IP law.

TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
The US has historically been flexible with foreign IP when it suited the US's interests.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  Oh,but Samuel Slater was many lifetimes ago; after reaping the benefits, we have evolved and now know that it is wrong. /s.