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Bullshit. Sorry, this "we're the same" retort is exhausting. The United States government does not employ censors to remove portions of shows before allowing t

Bullshit. Sorry, this "we're the same" retort is exhausting. The United States government does not employ censors to remove portions of shows before allowing them to air (or stream, whatever). The closest thing I can think of is DoD not giving access to a movie unless it paints Navy pilots in a certain light. Okay, fine. Not nearly the same as what this site is showing us. Yes, we have cultural taboos, like any culture. Studios have more trouble presenting some viewpoints over others. Chappelle gets protested, that one episode of Community was memory-holed on Hulu (but not on Amazon!). We ban pornography on public airwaves (but not on streaming or cable or satellite, or Blueray). If you compare and contrast the pervasiveness of censorship between China and the United States, the difference is huge. When it comes to artistic freedom, the US is way better than China. Maybe you can say we can improve even more, sure. But that's a long way off from our censorship being "honestly no better".

briantakita 4y ago
Not Bullshit. If the Government & Corporations care so much about others censoring, they should lead by example. Lectures by hypocrites will otherwise be ignored...even if the censorship that you may like is categorized as being justified by you. If you don't like China's censorship policies, then appeal to China's sensibilities as their censorship is categorized as justified by them. Otherwise, the Chinese government will simply point out that lectures from hypocrites have no bearing.
- ryanobjc 4y ago
  Absolutely wrong, the founders knew it, you should know it, everyone knows it. There's a big difference between using the rule of law to shape what can and cannot be said or sold or published. Compared to different private publishers/agents/etc deciding what they wish to do. The marketplace solves the latter problem - and it has! People are getting caught up in the "chicken" joke, but if you read the read of the article you'll see that crime dramas had to be re-shot so the "side of justice" wins in the end. What kind of anodyne cultural bullshit is that? Only the good guys win - BY STATE LAW. So absolutely not, the US and China are not even remotely the same. To suggest so is so ridiculous offensive it opens one up to accusations that they are a Chinese sock puppet... and it's a totally reasonable opinion to hold!
  - briantakita 4y ago
    You can call me whatever you want. I'm saying practice what you preach otherwise you're going to be written off as a hypocrite & your criticisms will not have credibility. Consider that political censorship has been increasing & becoming a criminal & economic matter in the West. Julian Assange is an example of a journalist who is held in detention without being charged for political reasons. Do you honestly think that America & the West have integrity with the Constitution & the spirit of the Founders? If you do, boy do I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
- function_seven 4y ago
  Let me make this simpler. The 100 most popular movies produced in China are completely fine to stream in the US. Not a single scene or phrase is removed by our government before allowing us to watch them. Same with music, TV, books, and art. The reverse is not even close. Can you give me a Western example that is analogous to Tank Man, or to Winnie the Pooh?
  - briantakita 4y ago
    I don't think Julian Assange among other whistleblowers who are punished for speaking out about the Western hegemony's actions care too much about the Big Bang Theory's episodes in China...same with most of who are censored by YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc for political reasons. Practice what you preach or what you preach has no credibility. The global south & many westerners are tired of the lectures coming from the NeoLiberal Democracies & it's easy for them to identify a long list of hypocrisy.
    - function_seven 4y ago
      I agree with you that Julian has been targeted for political reasons. I can type this on a US site with absolutely no fear of repercussions. I practice what I preach. I also think our treatment of Guantanamo Bay prisoners is unconscionable. I openly criticize my own government all the time. And not a single post or comment has ever been removed by that same government. By the way, here's the (uncensored) leaks from Julian: https://wikileaks.org/afg/ https://wikileaks.org/afg/ Edward Snowden really exposed the NSA almost 10 years ago. Yet I can still access the PowerPoints and other materials he leaked. They're on Wikipedia! That's like, the opposite of censored. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM) Can you make a statement about Tank Man, or Xi's resemblance to Winnie the Pooh, or Peng Shuai and her accusations? Do it on WeChat. Let me know how that goes.
      - briantakita3 4y ago
- sadgrip 4y ago
  What censorship are you referring to? Streaming services as far as I know can show anything that isn't illegal. Is that not the case?
  - briantakita3 4y ago
    Streaming services can show anything...sometimes with supply side cartel repercussions that completely undermine the company...such as the case with Parler. Content providers are censored by streaming providers for political reasons. Hate speech laws in England & Europe criminalizes (jail time) people for saying the wrong things about protected political groups. Banks & the Canadian government have criminalized people donating to the Trucker protest. The protest leaders are still held in detention. Also journalists have doxxed the people who donate. January 6th protesters are help in prison & finances ruined by having to fight a federal case for attending a protest. And if you want to call it an insurrection to excuse the authoritarian response China does the same against people who protests there.
commandlinefan 4y ago
> The United States government does not employ censors to remove portions of shows What? Yes it does - the FCC has been doing this for a half-century at least.
- function_seven 4y ago
  I noted that in my comment: > We ban pornography on public airwaves (but not on streaming or cable or satellite, or Blueray). And the FCC has a very narrow scope. I also happen to disagree with their prudishness (Janet Jackson, 2003). It does not back the argument that we're "honestly no better".
  - fortuna86 4y ago
    FCC always only covers broadcast TV and radio, not cable or streaming.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Which shows and which portions specifically have been removed/censored/banned by the FCC?
some-human 4y ago
Say the word "Bullshit" and then show a erect penis on Wheel of Fortune and see how that 'we don't censor things' goes for you.
- function_seven 4y ago
  I guarantee you that the footage would be a viral sensation online. King World productions would decline to air it, okay. But if it leaked, it would be viewed by millions. Are you saying that a production company not airing craziness is the same as being arrested for calling your leader a cartoon bear? Is that the equivalency I'm supposed to be drawing? (https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/tweets-01232020164342.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/tweets-01232020164342...)
  - some-human 4y ago
    Not only would they "decline to air it" they are prohibited from airing it. > Broadcasting obscene content is prohibited by law at all times of the day. Indecent and profane content are prohibited on broadcast TV and radio between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m., when there is a reasonable risk that children may be in the audience. > Obscene content does not have protection by the First Amendment. For content to be ruled obscene, it must meet a three-pronged test established by the Supreme Court: It must appeal to an average person's prurient interest; depict or describe sexual conduct in a "patently offensive" way; and, taken as a whole, lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. via [https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-profane-broadcasts#:~:text=Broadcasting%20obscene%20content%20is%20prohibited,may%20be%20in%20the%20audience https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-pr....] Christ in the Original Star Trek run CBS had a censor employed on set for an episode where a character wore a risky outfit to make sure no nipples popped out. That isn't different to this Chinese company making sure their shows meet the restrictions of the Chinese authority. Your weird puritan country will air a show where a character shoots someone with a gun in the street, in your copaganda shows, but god forbid one of them gets a tit out whilst they do it.
    - function_seven 4y ago
YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
"Whataboutism" is so reliable in discussions of China that it may as well be the only card in the Wumao's deck. It's also a pretty defeatist attitude, were they to actually believe it, since it amounts to "Everyone is awful and there's no point in trying to be better".

briantakita 4y ago

Not Bullshit. If the Government & Corporations care so much about others censoring, they should lead by example. Lectures by hypocrites will otherwise be ignored...even if the censorship that you may like is categorized as being justified by you. If you don't like China's censorship policies, then appeal to China's sensibilities as their censorship is categorized as justified by them. Otherwise, the Chinese government will simply point out that lectures from hypocrites have no bearing.

ryanobjc 4y ago
Absolutely wrong, the founders knew it, you should know it, everyone knows it. There's a big difference between using the rule of law to shape what can and cannot be said or sold or published. Compared to different private publishers/agents/etc deciding what they wish to do. The marketplace solves the latter problem - and it has! People are getting caught up in the "chicken" joke, but if you read the read of the article you'll see that crime dramas had to be re-shot so the "side of justice" wins in the end. What kind of anodyne cultural bullshit is that? Only the good guys win - BY STATE LAW. So absolutely not, the US and China are not even remotely the same. To suggest so is so ridiculous offensive it opens one up to accusations that they are a Chinese sock puppet... and it's a totally reasonable opinion to hold!
- briantakita 4y ago
  You can call me whatever you want. I'm saying practice what you preach otherwise you're going to be written off as a hypocrite & your criticisms will not have credibility. Consider that political censorship has been increasing & becoming a criminal & economic matter in the West. Julian Assange is an example of a journalist who is held in detention without being charged for political reasons. Do you honestly think that America & the West have integrity with the Constitution & the spirit of the Founders? If you do, boy do I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
function_seven 4y ago
Let me make this simpler. The 100 most popular movies produced in China are completely fine to stream in the US. Not a single scene or phrase is removed by our government before allowing us to watch them. Same with music, TV, books, and art. The reverse is not even close. Can you give me a Western example that is analogous to Tank Man, or to Winnie the Pooh?
- briantakita 4y ago
  I don't think Julian Assange among other whistleblowers who are punished for speaking out about the Western hegemony's actions care too much about the Big Bang Theory's episodes in China...same with most of who are censored by YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc for political reasons. Practice what you preach or what you preach has no credibility. The global south & many westerners are tired of the lectures coming from the NeoLiberal Democracies & it's easy for them to identify a long list of hypocrisy.
  - function_seven 4y ago
    I agree with you that Julian has been targeted for political reasons. I can type this on a US site with absolutely no fear of repercussions. I practice what I preach. I also think our treatment of Guantanamo Bay prisoners is unconscionable. I openly criticize my own government all the time. And not a single post or comment has ever been removed by that same government. By the way, here's the (uncensored) leaks from Julian: https://wikileaks.org/afg/ https://wikileaks.org/afg/ Edward Snowden really exposed the NSA almost 10 years ago. Yet I can still access the PowerPoints and other materials he leaked. They're on Wikipedia! That's like, the opposite of censored. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM) Can you make a statement about Tank Man, or Xi's resemblance to Winnie the Pooh, or Peng Shuai and her accusations? Do it on WeChat. Let me know how that goes.
    - briantakita3 4y ago
sadgrip 4y ago
What censorship are you referring to? Streaming services as far as I know can show anything that isn't illegal. Is that not the case?
- briantakita3 4y ago
  Streaming services can show anything...sometimes with supply side cartel repercussions that completely undermine the company...such as the case with Parler. Content providers are censored by streaming providers for political reasons. Hate speech laws in England & Europe criminalizes (jail time) people for saying the wrong things about protected political groups. Banks & the Canadian government have criminalized people donating to the Trucker protest. The protest leaders are still held in detention. Also journalists have doxxed the people who donate. January 6th protesters are help in prison & finances ruined by having to fight a federal case for attending a protest. And if you want to call it an insurrection to excuse the authoritarian response China does the same against people who protests there.

commandlinefan 4y ago

> The United States government does not employ censors to remove portions of shows What? Yes it does - the FCC has been doing this for a half-century at least.

function_seven 4y ago
I noted that in my comment: > We ban pornography on public airwaves (but not on streaming or cable or satellite, or Blueray). And the FCC has a very narrow scope. I also happen to disagree with their prudishness (Janet Jackson, 2003). It does not back the argument that we're "honestly no better".
- fortuna86 4y ago
  FCC always only covers broadcast TV and radio, not cable or streaming.
Beltalowda 4y ago
Which shows and which portions specifically have been removed/censored/banned by the FCC?

some-human 4y ago

Say the word "Bullshit" and then show a erect penis on Wheel of Fortune and see how that 'we don't censor things' goes for you.

function_seven 4y ago
I guarantee you that the footage would be a viral sensation online. King World productions would decline to air it, okay. But if it leaked, it would be viewed by millions. Are you saying that a production company not airing craziness is the same as being arrested for calling your leader a cartoon bear? Is that the equivalency I'm supposed to be drawing? (https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/tweets-01232020164342.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/tweets-01232020164342...)
- some-human 4y ago
  Not only would they "decline to air it" they are prohibited from airing it. > Broadcasting obscene content is prohibited by law at all times of the day. Indecent and profane content are prohibited on broadcast TV and radio between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m., when there is a reasonable risk that children may be in the audience. > Obscene content does not have protection by the First Amendment. For content to be ruled obscene, it must meet a three-pronged test established by the Supreme Court: It must appeal to an average person's prurient interest; depict or describe sexual conduct in a "patently offensive" way; and, taken as a whole, lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. via [https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-profane-broadcasts#:~:text=Broadcasting%20obscene%20content%20is%20prohibited,may%20be%20in%20the%20audience https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-pr....] Christ in the Original Star Trek run CBS had a censor employed on set for an episode where a character wore a risky outfit to make sure no nipples popped out. That isn't different to this Chinese company making sure their shows meet the restrictions of the Chinese authority. Your weird puritan country will air a show where a character shoots someone with a gun in the street, in your copaganda shows, but god forbid one of them gets a tit out whilst they do it.
  - function_seven 4y ago

YurgenJurgensen 4y ago

"Whataboutism" is so reliable in discussions of China that it may as well be the only card in the Wumao's deck. It's also a pretty defeatist attitude, were they to actually believe it, since it amounts to "Everyone is awful and there's no point in trying to be better".