8 ms·

Personally I'm mostly offended how stale and unoriginal a lot of these jokes are, but I can definitely see why the censors took offense at some of them. For ex

by sltkr 4y ago

Personally I'm mostly offended how stale and unoriginal a lot of these jokes are, but I can definitely see why the censors took offense at some of them. For example, the joke about the Chinese restaurant ("I'd be more concerned about what they're passing off as chicken") plays off of the stereotype that Chinese people eat dogs and cats, and the “passing off” remark implies that the Chinese restaurant owners are deceptive and would immorally and illegally serve their guests a different kind of meat than advertised. I can definitely see how that joke would be considered offensive. The author labels that joke as "harmless" but you don't have to be a Chinese censor to interpret it as reinforcing harmful stereotypes. I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. Similarly, the racist remarks about Chinese people made by Sheldon's mom are somewhat offensive if taken at face value. I guess the joke is supposed to be at her expense instead ("old people are racists" is an American comedy cliche, if a somewhat tired one) but it's conceivable that either the censors didn't get that, or they feared that their audience didn't get that, so they decided to cut it out entirely. "They wouldn't get that" is probably also the right explanation for censoring the joke about Jews eating at Chinese restaurants during Christmas, which is a very American tradition. That doesn't imply the joke needs to go, but I can see how that would, at best, leave Chinese viewers scratching their heads.

throwaways85989 4y ago
jjcon 4y ago
> can definitely see why the censors took offense at some of them Take offense maybe… censor absolutely not
stirfish 4y ago
> I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. Yeah, the show isn't that funny. >For example, the joke about the Chinese restaurant ("I'd be more concerned about what they're passing off as chicken") plays off of the stereotype that Chinese people eat dogs and cats, and the “passing off” remark implies that the Chinese restaurant owners are deceptive and would immorally and illegally serve their guests a different kind of meat than advertised. I can definitely see how that joke would be considered offensive. I hadn't considered the cat/dog meat angle, thank you for the perspective. In that case, I'd probably cut it too. I was thinking more of chicken nuggets, where a dozen birds are liquified and poured into a mold. Like if you ordered the pork and was served a hotdog, the "passing off as" bit would still work, you know?
jedberg 4y ago
> I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. Did you see the recent video where the white guy dressed up in a poncho, big hat, and fake mustache and carried around maracas? He asked a bunch of white kids on a college campus if they thought his outfit was offensive to Mexicans, and they all said yes. Then he went to the Mexican part of town and asked actual Mexicans, and they all said it was funny or that they liked that he was trying to honor their culture. Not one of them was offended. So perhaps it would be good to ask a Chinese person if this joke offends them.
- pvg 4y ago
  As a measure of whether a stereotype is actually bad or has negative effects, this sort of thing is a lot staler than a BBT joke, though.
- throwaway5752 4y ago
  Who posted that video, and was it unedited? If we're going on a single piece of anecdata, I think it's fair to question if the creator had any biases or was trustworthy. And not all racism / bias is equal. Maybe you are right that Chinese and Chinese-American people would not be offended by this, but it seems completely reasonable that they would be, and the onus on you would be to get data that they wouldn't. It really doesn't matter what liberal college students think at all, unless they happen to also be of Chinese or of Chinese descent (or they are southeast Asian, and tired of lazy racism that doesn't bother to distinguish such things). edit: it was in fact PragerU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU) which is intended for entertainment. It should not be considered reliable or unedited.
  - jedberg 4y ago
    > and the onus on you would be to get data that they wouldn't. FWIW I have a few data points -- this is something my Chinese wife has literally said inside a Chinese restaurant, and some of her other family members have said similar things about not trusting that the food being served is what they said it was.
commandlinefan 4y ago
> plays off of the stereotype that Chinese people eat dogs and cats So... you support government censorship of jokes that somebody, somewhere might be offended by?
- joshuahedlund 4y ago
  The original poster only said they could "see why" the censors took offense, not that they supported it.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Wouldn't that happen even in the US? A movie full of vile racist and sexist jokes bordering on abuse is not going to get a [G] rating, meaning the government is censoring it for some viewers. Edit: it seems it's actually relatively easy to find jokes that are genuinely offensive and degrading in PG rated films. Why that's considered less potentially harmful to kids than showing sex between consenting adults I honestly don't know.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    Age ratings are quite a different thing than making it unavailable to the entire public. I don't think you can just lob all censorship in the same basket like that: there's quite a bit of nuance here that makes all the difference.
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      I don't see any point trying to justify or argue for extreme Chinese-style censorship. But there are still useful debates to be had about censorship in Western liberal societies.
      - Beltalowda 4y ago
        But they're not the same things at all; I don't think age-ratings are "censorship".
wrycoder 4y ago
I don't find BBT funny. The censored sex-related stuff is in there for its shock effect, anyway.
ryanobjc 4y ago
dogleash 4y ago
>Personally I'm mostly offended how stale and unoriginal a lot of these jokes are It's CBS. The channel for old people on a medium for old people. >I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. Yes, and? Everyone thinks they like 'irreverent' comedy until it violates the wrong proprieties. "On the way out of fashion" is a flavor of subversive comedy, often targeted at different audiences than "on the way into fashion" flavor of subversive comedy. The people old enough to watch CBS are from a generation where they and their friends can exchange jokes at the expense of eachother's lineal stereotypes without it being inherently toxic. I just let them have their laughs, it seems pretty harmless.
Beltalowda 4y ago
> The author labels that joke as "harmless" but you don't have to be a Chinese censor to interpret it as reinforcing harmful stereotypes. Is it actually "harmful" though? People are still going to Chinese restaurants as far as I know. The "harmful" adjective is being thrown around a lot, but it's never been very clear to me there is actual harm. People will cite things such as "violence against Asian-Americans has been on the increase!", but that seems entirely disconnected from some jokes in some sitcom.
camdenlock 4y ago
> I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. This is why, in a sane society, liberal arts students are not consulted for their wisdom.
the_optimist 4y ago
Agree, these are 'jokes' are pathetically trite, bland fare. However ironically, liberal college grads are mostly the ones writing the shows. Hard to wrap one's head around.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  No one is claiming that The Big Bang Theory is the peak of high class humor but I wouldn't say its offensive. The first example might seem offensive if you don't have any social skills but the joke is not about the eyes of Asian people, the joke is that old people, particularly in rural areas often make off hand racist comments and the awkward moments that result. The viewer is meant to relate to things they have heard their parents say rather than relating with the person reading the line.
mywittyname 4y ago
> For example, the joke about the Chinese restaurant ("I'd be more concerned about what they're passing off as chicken") That same joke is made about a lot of food chains, especially fast food, like McDonald's. Replace chicken with beef and you have half of all the jokes ever made about Taco Bell (with the other half being poo jokes).
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Those are companies, not nationalities.
Tao3300 4y ago
For the most part, jokes are only offensive if they strike a nerve. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-china/wal-mart-recalls-donkey-product-in-china-after-fox-meat-scandal-idUSBREA0103O20140102 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-china/wal-mart-re... > Wal-Mart will reimburse customers who bought the tainted “Five Spice” donkey meat and is helping local food and industry agencies in eastern Shandong province investigate its Chinese supplier... The Shandong Food and Drug Administration earlier said the product contained fox meat.
archi42 4y ago
Just today I saw part of a BBT rerun on German TV: The guys camp out in some lodge, together with the lodge's owner. That owner is also a brilliant(?) scientist, living alone in the lodge. I think he is from Germany, but that might differ depending on the localisation. He and his wife send each other cards once per year, for their respective birthday. Well, turns out most years, because this year he forgot it (Sheldon later realizes that in fact Amy is more important to him than science). Anyway, he asks them if they know the difference in taste between (wild) rabbit and squirrel, and since the guys say they don't, "well, then we'll have bunny today" and leaves the lodge with his rifle. The guys then leave while he is hunting, with Sheldon commenting "I know the difference, I'm from Texas". So, as a German, should I be offended because of the squirrel/rabbit thing? Should Texans be offended? What about the career over partner theme, is that insensible to Germans divorcing due to career-induced burnouts? No, it's just a joke. I don't believe anyone would think we ate squirrel, and I don't believe Texans do. (However, rabbit is in fact eaten around here. It's also a meat in France (who are famous for their cuisine) and... China. Says the Internet. But around here rabbit is more a delicacy, often for Easter or other special occasions; personally I think I haven't eaten rabbit meat in nearly a decade. Also, the rabbits-for-eating are large animals, not bunnys. Those are adored and loved as pets).
- astrange 4y ago
  The rabbits bred for meat also make good pets: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdAi5Y8DDoNyX-4qcEcd-5w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdAi5Y8DDoNyX-4qcEcd-5w On the other hand, there's apparently a problem where pet stores are selling similar giant guinea pig breeds as pets, but they're too wild and don't have the temper to enjoy it. https://www.cavyhouse.org/%22Cuy%22.html https://www.cavyhouse.org/%22Cuy%22.html

by sltkr 4y ago

throwaways85989 4y ago

jjcon 4y ago

> can definitely see why the censors took offense at some of them Take offense maybe… censor absolutely not

stirfish 4y ago

> I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. Yeah, the show isn't that funny. >For example, the joke about the Chinese restaurant ("I'd be more concerned about what they're passing off as chicken") plays off of the stereotype that Chinese people eat dogs and cats, and the “passing off” remark implies that the Chinese restaurant owners are deceptive and would immorally and illegally serve their guests a different kind of meat than advertised. I can definitely see how that joke would be considered offensive. I hadn't considered the cat/dog meat angle, thank you for the perspective. In that case, I'd probably cut it too. I was thinking more of chicken nuggets, where a dozen birds are liquified and poured into a mold. Like if you ordered the pork and was served a hotdog, the "passing off as" bit would still work, you know?

jedberg 4y ago

> I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. Did you see the recent video where the white guy dressed up in a poncho, big hat, and fake mustache and carried around maracas? He asked a bunch of white kids on a college campus if they thought his outfit was offensive to Mexicans, and they all said yes. Then he went to the Mexican part of town and asked actual Mexicans, and they all said it was funny or that they liked that he was trying to honor their culture. Not one of them was offended. So perhaps it would be good to ask a Chinese person if this joke offends them.

pvg 4y ago
As a measure of whether a stereotype is actually bad or has negative effects, this sort of thing is a lot staler than a BBT joke, though.
throwaway5752 4y ago
Who posted that video, and was it unedited? If we're going on a single piece of anecdata, I think it's fair to question if the creator had any biases or was trustworthy. And not all racism / bias is equal. Maybe you are right that Chinese and Chinese-American people would not be offended by this, but it seems completely reasonable that they would be, and the onus on you would be to get data that they wouldn't. It really doesn't matter what liberal college students think at all, unless they happen to also be of Chinese or of Chinese descent (or they are southeast Asian, and tired of lazy racism that doesn't bother to distinguish such things). edit: it was in fact PragerU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU) which is intended for entertainment. It should not be considered reliable or unedited.
- jedberg 4y ago
  > and the onus on you would be to get data that they wouldn't. FWIW I have a few data points -- this is something my Chinese wife has literally said inside a Chinese restaurant, and some of her other family members have said similar things about not trusting that the food being served is what they said it was.

commandlinefan 4y ago

> plays off of the stereotype that Chinese people eat dogs and cats So... you support government censorship of jokes that somebody, somewhere might be offended by?

joshuahedlund 4y ago
The original poster only said they could "see why" the censors took offense, not that they supported it.
wizofaus 4y ago
Wouldn't that happen even in the US? A movie full of vile racist and sexist jokes bordering on abuse is not going to get a [G] rating, meaning the government is censoring it for some viewers. Edit: it seems it's actually relatively easy to find jokes that are genuinely offensive and degrading in PG rated films. Why that's considered less potentially harmful to kids than showing sex between consenting adults I honestly don't know.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Age ratings are quite a different thing than making it unavailable to the entire public. I don't think you can just lob all censorship in the same basket like that: there's quite a bit of nuance here that makes all the difference.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    I don't see any point trying to justify or argue for extreme Chinese-style censorship. But there are still useful debates to be had about censorship in Western liberal societies.
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      But they're not the same things at all; I don't think age-ratings are "censorship".

wrycoder 4y ago

I don't find BBT funny. The censored sex-related stuff is in there for its shock effect, anyway.

ryanobjc 4y ago

dogleash 4y ago

>Personally I'm mostly offended how stale and unoriginal a lot of these jokes are It's CBS. The channel for old people on a medium for old people. >I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. Yes, and? Everyone thinks they like 'irreverent' comedy until it violates the wrong proprieties. "On the way out of fashion" is a flavor of subversive comedy, often targeted at different audiences than "on the way into fashion" flavor of subversive comedy. The people old enough to watch CBS are from a generation where they and their friends can exchange jokes at the expense of eachother's lineal stereotypes without it being inherently toxic. I just let them have their laughs, it seems pretty harmless.

Beltalowda 4y ago

> The author labels that joke as "harmless" but you don't have to be a Chinese censor to interpret it as reinforcing harmful stereotypes. Is it actually "harmful" though? People are still going to Chinese restaurants as far as I know. The "harmful" adjective is being thrown around a lot, but it's never been very clear to me there is actual harm. People will cite things such as "violence against Asian-Americans has been on the increase!", but that seems entirely disconnected from some jokes in some sitcom.

camdenlock 4y ago

> I dare you to show that scene at a liberal college and notice how few laughs you get. This is why, in a sane society, liberal arts students are not consulted for their wisdom.

the_optimist 4y ago

Agree, these are 'jokes' are pathetically trite, bland fare. However ironically, liberal college grads are mostly the ones writing the shows. Hard to wrap one's head around.

Gigachad 4y ago
No one is claiming that The Big Bang Theory is the peak of high class humor but I wouldn't say its offensive. The first example might seem offensive if you don't have any social skills but the joke is not about the eyes of Asian people, the joke is that old people, particularly in rural areas often make off hand racist comments and the awkward moments that result. The viewer is meant to relate to things they have heard their parents say rather than relating with the person reading the line.

mywittyname 4y ago

> For example, the joke about the Chinese restaurant ("I'd be more concerned about what they're passing off as chicken") That same joke is made about a lot of food chains, especially fast food, like McDonald's. Replace chicken with beef and you have half of all the jokes ever made about Taco Bell (with the other half being poo jokes).

pessimizer 4y ago
Those are companies, not nationalities.

Tao3300 4y ago

For the most part, jokes are only offensive if they strike a nerve. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-china/wal-mart-recalls-donkey-product-in-china-after-fox-meat-scandal-idUSBREA0103O20140102 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-china/wal-mart-re... > Wal-Mart will reimburse customers who bought the tainted “Five Spice” donkey meat and is helping local food and industry agencies in eastern Shandong province investigate its Chinese supplier... The Shandong Food and Drug Administration earlier said the product contained fox meat.

archi42 4y ago

Just today I saw part of a BBT rerun on German TV: The guys camp out in some lodge, together with the lodge's owner. That owner is also a brilliant(?) scientist, living alone in the lodge. I think he is from Germany, but that might differ depending on the localisation. He and his wife send each other cards once per year, for their respective birthday. Well, turns out most years, because this year he forgot it (Sheldon later realizes that in fact Amy is more important to him than science). Anyway, he asks them if they know the difference in taste between (wild) rabbit and squirrel, and since the guys say they don't, "well, then we'll have bunny today" and leaves the lodge with his rifle. The guys then leave while he is hunting, with Sheldon commenting "I know the difference, I'm from Texas". So, as a German, should I be offended because of the squirrel/rabbit thing? Should Texans be offended? What about the career over partner theme, is that insensible to Germans divorcing due to career-induced burnouts? No, it's just a joke. I don't believe anyone would think we ate squirrel, and I don't believe Texans do. (However, rabbit is in fact eaten around here. It's also a meat in France (who are famous for their cuisine) and... China. Says the Internet. But around here rabbit is more a delicacy, often for Easter or other special occasions; personally I think I haven't eaten rabbit meat in nearly a decade. Also, the rabbits-for-eating are large animals, not bunnys. Those are adored and loved as pets).

astrange 4y ago
The rabbits bred for meat also make good pets: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdAi5Y8DDoNyX-4qcEcd-5w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdAi5Y8DDoNyX-4qcEcd-5w On the other hand, there's apparently a problem where pet stores are selling similar giant guinea pig breeds as pets, but they're too wild and don't have the temper to enjoy it. https://www.cavyhouse.org/%22Cuy%22.html https://www.cavyhouse.org/%22Cuy%22.html