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Bingo. This is something the cryptocurrency extremists just willfully refuse to acknowledge. It turns out that transaction reversibility and the ability (and wi

Bingo. This is something the cryptocurrency extremists just willfully refuse to acknowledge. It turns out that transaction reversibility and the ability (and willingness) of law enforcement to get involved are extremely useful tools in most commerce scenarios.

throw101010 4y ago
If reversibility is needed any "cryptocurrency extremist" will tell you that there is no trustless solution to this kind of transaction and that a trusted intermediary (usually an escrow) is needed. This is what happens with fiat money anyways, it is just so intimately mixed by now (credit cards, ACH, etc.) that you figure it's the only kind of transaction that exist or should exist. Crypto is providing an alternative to this point of view, if you don't think you need it, don't use it, pretty straightforward... and if you want to stop it because you want people to think like you, try to stop it, let's have fun.
- permo-w 4y ago
  I think it’s the evangelism of crypto that irritates people, not the personal use of it, although there are the obvious environmental issues with that too.
  - throw101010 4y ago
    I don't think anybody asked what was annoying about crypto, we are talking about irreversibility and why it can be a useful option for some people. But thanks for sharing your concerns I guess.
    - permo-w 4y ago
      you spent the last paragraph of your comment complaining about people having a problem with crypto as if you have no idea why that might be also perhaps consider taking a less passive aggressive tone. throwaway accounts are not an excuse to be rude
      - throw101010 4y ago
        There isn't a single "complaint" in the paragraph you refer to. If stating the factual matter of what you can do with or against crypto is "rude" to you, feel free to not answer next time, as your whining/concern trolling won't change much to these facts... especially when they don't relate to what was debated: reversability of transactions.
jimcavel888 4y ago
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glennvtx 4y ago
There is nothing inherent to cryptocurrency that prevents the ability to reverse a payment, it can be done in a contract, only both sides must agree to use it. Personally i see the inability of government ( or anyone else ) to arbitrarily modify transactions as crypto's greatest strength. Want reversibility? you can have it. Want a custodial institution to manage your account? you can have that too, Nothing stopping you. The system is flexible and secure in ways the traditional financial system is not.
- chadash 4y ago
  The parent is referring to reversibility without both parties agreeing. I send merchant money from my bank to buy widget. Merchant doesn’t send me widget. Bank can reverse transaction without needing merchant permission. And the buck stops with the courts who can enforce the final action.
  - survirtual 4y ago
    Can you really say this and not see the problem with it? Is it possible so many people have become this utterly complacent they can’t see tyranny when it’s right in front of their faces? The same banks that caused 2008 and got bailed out can unanimously control transactions. The same banks that cause endless global conflict, that fix elections, that manipulate politicians, that rig the fabric of capitalism and democracy all around the world, that enable socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor…those same banks are the ones you trust to “reverse transactions without permission”. This is the problem crypto fixes. It removes the banks power. It has reversibility; it just needs to be integrated with the/a identity mechanism and legal system. The main purpose is to cut out the bankers.
    - chadash 4y ago
      I just want to be able to get a refund if the toaster that I ordered doesn't get delivered. How would crypto go about doing that without it being in the sole discretion of the seller?

throw101010 4y ago

If reversibility is needed any "cryptocurrency extremist" will tell you that there is no trustless solution to this kind of transaction and that a trusted intermediary (usually an escrow) is needed. This is what happens with fiat money anyways, it is just so intimately mixed by now (credit cards, ACH, etc.) that you figure it's the only kind of transaction that exist or should exist. Crypto is providing an alternative to this point of view, if you don't think you need it, don't use it, pretty straightforward... and if you want to stop it because you want people to think like you, try to stop it, let's have fun.

permo-w 4y ago
I think it’s the evangelism of crypto that irritates people, not the personal use of it, although there are the obvious environmental issues with that too.
- throw101010 4y ago
  I don't think anybody asked what was annoying about crypto, we are talking about irreversibility and why it can be a useful option for some people. But thanks for sharing your concerns I guess.
  - permo-w 4y ago
    you spent the last paragraph of your comment complaining about people having a problem with crypto as if you have no idea why that might be also perhaps consider taking a less passive aggressive tone. throwaway accounts are not an excuse to be rude
    - throw101010 4y ago
      There isn't a single "complaint" in the paragraph you refer to. If stating the factual matter of what you can do with or against crypto is "rude" to you, feel free to not answer next time, as your whining/concern trolling won't change much to these facts... especially when they don't relate to what was debated: reversability of transactions.

jimcavel888 4y ago

[dead]

glennvtx 4y ago

There is nothing inherent to cryptocurrency that prevents the ability to reverse a payment, it can be done in a contract, only both sides must agree to use it. Personally i see the inability of government ( or anyone else ) to arbitrarily modify transactions as crypto's greatest strength. Want reversibility? you can have it. Want a custodial institution to manage your account? you can have that too, Nothing stopping you. The system is flexible and secure in ways the traditional financial system is not.

chadash 4y ago
The parent is referring to reversibility without both parties agreeing. I send merchant money from my bank to buy widget. Merchant doesn’t send me widget. Bank can reverse transaction without needing merchant permission. And the buck stops with the courts who can enforce the final action.
- survirtual 4y ago
  Can you really say this and not see the problem with it? Is it possible so many people have become this utterly complacent they can’t see tyranny when it’s right in front of their faces? The same banks that caused 2008 and got bailed out can unanimously control transactions. The same banks that cause endless global conflict, that fix elections, that manipulate politicians, that rig the fabric of capitalism and democracy all around the world, that enable socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor…those same banks are the ones you trust to “reverse transactions without permission”. This is the problem crypto fixes. It removes the banks power. It has reversibility; it just needs to be integrated with the/a identity mechanism and legal system. The main purpose is to cut out the bankers.
  - chadash 4y ago
    I just want to be able to get a refund if the toaster that I ordered doesn't get delivered. How would crypto go about doing that without it being in the sole discretion of the seller?