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I'm a member of a forum for graduates of one of the schools I went to. In 2007 it was a vibrant and active forum, growing steadily, and straining its hosting a

by nirvana 15y ago

I'm a member of a forum for graduates of one of the schools I went to. In 2007 it was a vibrant and active forum, growing steadily, and straining its hosting account, which constantly had to be expanded. At some point, around 2009, most of the members of this forum got Facebook accounts. That forum is now completely dead. Facebook took all the oxygen out of the site, and it seems like a lot of other sites. Now very mainstream people seem to think of Facebook as "the internet" and they just hang out there. Some of the bigger sites are doing ok, still, of course. But at least for that forum, its audience is gone. To a person, the members of the audience say they love it, and many of them say they hate facebook because "its so impersonal." On the forum they were able to share more private things with closer friends. I think they would rather hang out on the forum, but there isn't the critical mass anymore... simply because Facebook is more addictive. It has gotten into some sort of a gamification, or addiction loop, in these peoples heads, it seems. I think the web is going to undergo a radical change in the next 5 or so years.

technel 15y ago
What kind of change? Further toward a centralized, monopolistic, Facebook-esque service or an implosion of that model?
janto 15y ago
> mainstream people seem to think of Facebook as "the internet" For quite a few years people used the Internet Explorer icon on pamphlets and posters as an icon representing The Internet. It seems people are now starting to use Facebook's icon for that.
- wgx 15y ago
  Just to corroborate, I've done user testing with young people (13-15) and Facebook is definitely seen as 'the internet' - along with YouTube.
  - skeletonjelly 15y ago
    Interesting. Can you impart any more information?
    - wgx 15y ago
      Certainly. This was user testing with groups of young people in Tower Hamlets, London in 2010. Aside from testing the UX spec we talked more widely around discovery and every group indicated that they began most tasks with a search on YouTube. Music, games, movies, homework research: all started visually on YT. Facebook came up because the majority of these kids didn't have email addresses, instead doing all their email-like conversations on Facebook messaging and their IM on Blackberry BBM.
      - mechanical_fish 15y ago
        they began most tasks with a search on YouTube This really underlines why buying YouTube was a smart move for Google.
  - rudasn 15y ago
    When I was 13-15 "the internet" was IRC and nothing else. I still can't understand how I managed to spent countless hours doing just that (scripting and that "flooding" thing seemed to be great fun though)
  - zerostar07 15y ago
    The same goes for the other end of the spectrum, people over 50-60 who started using the intern.. ehm sorry, facebook to connect with their grandchildren and play games. Their whole browser experience ends there, they don't ever type a URL in and have no notion of bookmarks other than facebook's app bookmarks (and they get disillusioned when they're missing).
- maximusprime 15y ago
  It's also weird IMHO when you see an advert or movie trailer, and they tell you to visit their facebook page, rather than their own website...
  - bphogan 15y ago
    It is just a repetition of the "Use AOL Keyword "ID4" (for Independence Day). Walled gardens for the less technical savvy have been the norm. Outside of the hacker/coder/geek culture, has it ever really been different? Prodigy -> AOL -> MySpace -> Facebook
    - talmand 15y ago
      I agree, over the years we've seen this type of thing again and again. I tried to explain to my mom once about the concept of a browser and that the IE icon on her desktop was not the Internet. After a while I gave up after realizing she was perfectly happy with her misconceptions about what the Internet is. It's only a matter of time when something else will replace Facebook as "the Internet". These things work in cycles.
dissident 15y ago
As an administrator of an online message board, I concur. Web content is being so efficiently aggregated that some forums turn into the awkward conversation between two redditors: "Check this out!" "Heh, yeah. I saw that." Communities before were usually separated by platforms, because the platforms were not yet sophisticated enough to support vast communities of varying opinions. Now we have a few big players that can do this and more. Social media has turned into a war over who can blow the most filter bubbles, and with services like OpenID and "connect with facebook", everything has slowly become part of the same identity. I'm hoping that a new platform will eventually come along to pry this apart, but it's going to take a completely different paradigm to cause it. Unless something like Google+ proves otherwise, websites like Facebook and Twitter et al have the potential to monopolize social networking.
- 101001010111 15y ago
  In my opinion, such a platform, or several, using an entirely different paradigm, already exist. To overtake Facebook, it is simply a matter of making it as easy to use as Facebook, and Facebook annoyances having reached a breaking point. Whether there is yet sufficient impetus to do the UI work and whether Facebook users are ready to move on to the next thing is another question.
  - donw 15y ago
    I'm going put put my two cents in, and say that a platform capable of replacing Facebook for discussion and community on the web has already been created. It's called Reddit. Bear with me here, I realize this is probably an unpopular opinion. On Reddit, all content is open -- I don't think I've ever seen a 'closed' sub-reddit available only to members. I'm not sure it's even possible. Yet, in spite of all communities being effectively open, most sub-reddits have a strong sense of community, and are very active. Personally, I really enjoy proggit and r/math for this reason -- active discussion, community moderation, and a strong sense of community.
    - user24 15y ago
      but you still have to register for reddit... reddit's owned by conde nast, it's not an open platform. Conde nast could at a moment's notice shut the entire thing down, or put it behind a paywall, or sell your 'likes' to an advertiser. This is a problem common to all centralised solutions.
mbesto 15y ago
I think the web is going to undergo a radical change in the next 5 or so years. Hasn't it radically changed every year?
- jsilence 15y ago
  "6. The only constant in the world is change." http://www.techrepublic.com/article/egoless-programming-the-path-to-better-code/1054456 http://www.techrepublic.com/article/egoless-programming-the-...
towelrod 15y ago
Facebook is doing the same thing to your forum that your forum did to USENET. In the 90s, USENET was lively and active. It was federated, decentralized, and you could use any client you wanted to access the information. Web based forums came along and shifted that control away from the loose internet and into the owners of the forums.
- TylerE 15y ago
  That's one way to look at it. I don't remember it quite that fondly. I also remember the missing replies, broken threads, spam you couldn't really do much about, endless flamewars about top-quoting vs bottom-quoting, etc. Plus the pace was just glacial - it could take hours for some posters posts to appear. Maybe is was better in the REALLY old days - a bit of quick, non-exhaustive google groups searching shows my first usenet posts in June of 1997.
  - towelrod 15y ago
    Hmm, I graduated from college before the REALLY old days were over, apparently. :) I don't mean to glorify USENET. The web based forums brought many cool new features -- you could post images that worked reliably, the Slashdot-style moderation stuff was a big boon, etc. I just meant to point out that the internet moves in cycles, and those cycles seem to lead towards newer technology and more centralized control.

by nirvana 15y ago

technel 15y ago

What kind of change? Further toward a centralized, monopolistic, Facebook-esque service or an implosion of that model?

janto 15y ago

> mainstream people seem to think of Facebook as "the internet" For quite a few years people used the Internet Explorer icon on pamphlets and posters as an icon representing The Internet. It seems people are now starting to use Facebook's icon for that.

wgx 15y ago
Just to corroborate, I've done user testing with young people (13-15) and Facebook is definitely seen as 'the internet' - along with YouTube.
- skeletonjelly 15y ago
  Interesting. Can you impart any more information?
  - wgx 15y ago
    Certainly. This was user testing with groups of young people in Tower Hamlets, London in 2010. Aside from testing the UX spec we talked more widely around discovery and every group indicated that they began most tasks with a search on YouTube. Music, games, movies, homework research: all started visually on YT. Facebook came up because the majority of these kids didn't have email addresses, instead doing all their email-like conversations on Facebook messaging and their IM on Blackberry BBM.
    - mechanical_fish 15y ago
      they began most tasks with a search on YouTube This really underlines why buying YouTube was a smart move for Google.
- rudasn 15y ago
  When I was 13-15 "the internet" was IRC and nothing else. I still can't understand how I managed to spent countless hours doing just that (scripting and that "flooding" thing seemed to be great fun though)
- zerostar07 15y ago
  The same goes for the other end of the spectrum, people over 50-60 who started using the intern.. ehm sorry, facebook to connect with their grandchildren and play games. Their whole browser experience ends there, they don't ever type a URL in and have no notion of bookmarks other than facebook's app bookmarks (and they get disillusioned when they're missing).
maximusprime 15y ago
It's also weird IMHO when you see an advert or movie trailer, and they tell you to visit their facebook page, rather than their own website...
- bphogan 15y ago
  It is just a repetition of the "Use AOL Keyword "ID4" (for Independence Day). Walled gardens for the less technical savvy have been the norm. Outside of the hacker/coder/geek culture, has it ever really been different? Prodigy -> AOL -> MySpace -> Facebook
  - talmand 15y ago
    I agree, over the years we've seen this type of thing again and again. I tried to explain to my mom once about the concept of a browser and that the IE icon on her desktop was not the Internet. After a while I gave up after realizing she was perfectly happy with her misconceptions about what the Internet is. It's only a matter of time when something else will replace Facebook as "the Internet". These things work in cycles.

dissident 15y ago

As an administrator of an online message board, I concur. Web content is being so efficiently aggregated that some forums turn into the awkward conversation between two redditors: "Check this out!" "Heh, yeah. I saw that." Communities before were usually separated by platforms, because the platforms were not yet sophisticated enough to support vast communities of varying opinions. Now we have a few big players that can do this and more. Social media has turned into a war over who can blow the most filter bubbles, and with services like OpenID and "connect with facebook", everything has slowly become part of the same identity. I'm hoping that a new platform will eventually come along to pry this apart, but it's going to take a completely different paradigm to cause it. Unless something like Google+ proves otherwise, websites like Facebook and Twitter et al have the potential to monopolize social networking.

101001010111 15y ago
In my opinion, such a platform, or several, using an entirely different paradigm, already exist. To overtake Facebook, it is simply a matter of making it as easy to use as Facebook, and Facebook annoyances having reached a breaking point. Whether there is yet sufficient impetus to do the UI work and whether Facebook users are ready to move on to the next thing is another question.
- donw 15y ago
  I'm going put put my two cents in, and say that a platform capable of replacing Facebook for discussion and community on the web has already been created. It's called Reddit. Bear with me here, I realize this is probably an unpopular opinion. On Reddit, all content is open -- I don't think I've ever seen a 'closed' sub-reddit available only to members. I'm not sure it's even possible. Yet, in spite of all communities being effectively open, most sub-reddits have a strong sense of community, and are very active. Personally, I really enjoy proggit and r/math for this reason -- active discussion, community moderation, and a strong sense of community.
  - user24 15y ago
    but you still have to register for reddit... reddit's owned by conde nast, it's not an open platform. Conde nast could at a moment's notice shut the entire thing down, or put it behind a paywall, or sell your 'likes' to an advertiser. This is a problem common to all centralised solutions.

mbesto 15y ago

I think the web is going to undergo a radical change in the next 5 or so years. Hasn't it radically changed every year?

jsilence 15y ago
"6. The only constant in the world is change." http://www.techrepublic.com/article/egoless-programming-the-path-to-better-code/1054456 http://www.techrepublic.com/article/egoless-programming-the-...

towelrod 15y ago

Facebook is doing the same thing to your forum that your forum did to USENET. In the 90s, USENET was lively and active. It was federated, decentralized, and you could use any client you wanted to access the information. Web based forums came along and shifted that control away from the loose internet and into the owners of the forums.

TylerE 15y ago
That's one way to look at it. I don't remember it quite that fondly. I also remember the missing replies, broken threads, spam you couldn't really do much about, endless flamewars about top-quoting vs bottom-quoting, etc. Plus the pace was just glacial - it could take hours for some posters posts to appear. Maybe is was better in the REALLY old days - a bit of quick, non-exhaustive google groups searching shows my first usenet posts in June of 1997.
- towelrod 15y ago
  Hmm, I graduated from college before the REALLY old days were over, apparently. :) I don't mean to glorify USENET. The web based forums brought many cool new features -- you could post images that worked reliably, the Slashdot-style moderation stuff was a big boon, etc. I just meant to point out that the internet moves in cycles, and those cycles seem to lead towards newer technology and more centralized control.