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"Great UX" If HN had such great UX, there wouldn't be multiple browser extensions (and clones) that focus solely on fixing the UX. I'm not saying the UX is ter

by dntrkv 4y ago

"Great UX" If HN had such great UX, there wouldn't be multiple browser extensions (and clones) that focus solely on fixing the UX. I'm not saying the UX is terrible, but I wouldn't call it great. I think the best term for it would be "consistent." It's basically Craigslist. It's fine if you've been using it for years and have adjusted your behavior to work with its quirks, but it does not provide a smooth experience that would work for a community you're starting today.

mod 4y ago
What types of changes would you make?
- wizofaus 4y ago
  The grey text for posts needs to go, I always think it means they've been downvoted, and is surely insufficient contrast to be WCAG/508 compliant.
  - plorkyeran 4y ago
    Light grey text does mean that the post has been downvoted below zero.
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      My understanding is that that's only true for comments not posts?
    - mod 4y ago
      He may mean the "visited link" color in the default color scheme.
- dntrkv 4y ago
  I pointed out some changes that are addressed by HEN in a reply to another post, but here are some others that would help. The funny thing is that HN doesn't even adhere to the basic UX practices that many around here constantly complain about in new design like knowing what is clickable. Take a look at each story list item on the front page, what do you think is clickable? Everything in the subheading is formatted exactly the same, but not everything is clickable. Same goes for the headings of each comment in a thread. And I think HN's violation of this is especially egregious since the formatting of these things aren't just the same, but they are greyed out. That's a pretty universal sign that something is not clickable. This is 100% confusing to new users. This one is a bit more difficult to implement without a lot of JS, but one thing that I have run into many times is reading through a comment thread, trying to reply, realizing I'm not logged in, logging in, losing context of where I was, scrolling through the thread trying to find where that comment was, giving up and not commenting. In addition to that, not remembering which comment threads have been collapsed. Accidentally navigate away? Good look finding your place again, especially if there were many new comments added. The mobile experience can be summed up as "very precise clicking" I think the top menu items are also named in a weird manner. Why does comments take you to a list of random comments in chronological order? How is that useful? You would expect that link to take you to your profiles comments, but no, that's the "threads" link. There is a lot of that on HN where things are (imo, purposely) obscure. I get why they would do it, but let's not pretend it's a good experience. HN caters to the most technically literate community on the internet. They will figure out how to use this site no matter if you had to navigate the site via the terminal (some would probably prefer that "NO JS!"). We've all gotten used to how the site works, we ignore all of its issues because we've adjusted our habits to work around those issues. And I'm not saying HN has terrible UX (there are actually many things we can learn from it) but it's definitely not the site I reference when I need inspiration for a good experience.
lazide 4y ago
There is no UX that is the best for everyone, there are always trade offs that hurt some or help others. Just because there are other products with different experiences that skin it doesn’t mean the core product is bad! It actually means the opposite - the core product has such value and there are so many users, it actually is able to support sizable enough communities of people ‘outside the core’ to justify niche repackagings for them!
- pdntspa 4y ago
  Exactly this. Too many definitions of "great UX" seem to focus on pulling in as many morons as possible because we refuse to force people to learn how to use something Great UX should also mean fast, efficient, and dense with information. Respectful of time, attention, and intelligence. Not making an assumption of stupidity on behalf of your users.
  - barnabee 4y ago
    100%. Great UX should primarily mean those things, at least for a certain subset of software.
- dntrkv 4y ago
  If the "skins" were just preferential type changes, that would be one thing. But many of the fixes within HN Enhancement Suite are basic UI fixes. Making links in profiles and text posts clickable. That's like the most basic thing you can do for your users. Adding the ability to collapse a massive comment thread without having to scroll to the top. Also, indent guides (especially needed for the massive threads around here). Shit, HN didn't even have collapsible comments for the longest time. Being able to comment inline and not having to navigate to a separate page where you lose context of the surrounding discussion. Highlighting new comments since you last viewed a thread. These are all basic things that HES addresses, there are many more I can point out. I'm not trying to insult the admins, I think they do an amazing job of running the site, but let's not pretend HN is some pinnacle of UX design. We are all just very used to it.
  - 4y ago
torginus 4y ago
Still, going by the fate of new Reddit, there should be a 'hyppocratic oath' among UI designers, so that they make sure they don't make the user's experience worse in their quest for UX improvements. Adding a ton of features almost nobody uses and rearchitecting the site using 'modern' frameworks, only to make it 10x slower goes right againts that oath.
- dntrkv 4y ago
  Reddit's redesign sucks not because of new features or modern frameworks, but because they don't care about the web experience and spend all of their effort funneling users into their mobile app.

by dntrkv 4y ago

mod 4y ago

What types of changes would you make?

wizofaus 4y ago
The grey text for posts needs to go, I always think it means they've been downvoted, and is surely insufficient contrast to be WCAG/508 compliant.
- plorkyeran 4y ago
  Light grey text does mean that the post has been downvoted below zero.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    My understanding is that that's only true for comments not posts?
  - mod 4y ago
    He may mean the "visited link" color in the default color scheme.
dntrkv 4y ago
I pointed out some changes that are addressed by HEN in a reply to another post, but here are some others that would help. The funny thing is that HN doesn't even adhere to the basic UX practices that many around here constantly complain about in new design like knowing what is clickable. Take a look at each story list item on the front page, what do you think is clickable? Everything in the subheading is formatted exactly the same, but not everything is clickable. Same goes for the headings of each comment in a thread. And I think HN's violation of this is especially egregious since the formatting of these things aren't just the same, but they are greyed out. That's a pretty universal sign that something is not clickable. This is 100% confusing to new users. This one is a bit more difficult to implement without a lot of JS, but one thing that I have run into many times is reading through a comment thread, trying to reply, realizing I'm not logged in, logging in, losing context of where I was, scrolling through the thread trying to find where that comment was, giving up and not commenting. In addition to that, not remembering which comment threads have been collapsed. Accidentally navigate away? Good look finding your place again, especially if there were many new comments added. The mobile experience can be summed up as "very precise clicking" I think the top menu items are also named in a weird manner. Why does comments take you to a list of random comments in chronological order? How is that useful? You would expect that link to take you to your profiles comments, but no, that's the "threads" link. There is a lot of that on HN where things are (imo, purposely) obscure. I get why they would do it, but let's not pretend it's a good experience. HN caters to the most technically literate community on the internet. They will figure out how to use this site no matter if you had to navigate the site via the terminal (some would probably prefer that "NO JS!"). We've all gotten used to how the site works, we ignore all of its issues because we've adjusted our habits to work around those issues. And I'm not saying HN has terrible UX (there are actually many things we can learn from it) but it's definitely not the site I reference when I need inspiration for a good experience.

lazide 4y ago

There is no UX that is the best for everyone, there are always trade offs that hurt some or help others. Just because there are other products with different experiences that skin it doesn’t mean the core product is bad! It actually means the opposite - the core product has such value and there are so many users, it actually is able to support sizable enough communities of people ‘outside the core’ to justify niche repackagings for them!

pdntspa 4y ago
Exactly this. Too many definitions of "great UX" seem to focus on pulling in as many morons as possible because we refuse to force people to learn how to use something Great UX should also mean fast, efficient, and dense with information. Respectful of time, attention, and intelligence. Not making an assumption of stupidity on behalf of your users.
- barnabee 4y ago
  100%. Great UX should primarily mean those things, at least for a certain subset of software.
dntrkv 4y ago
If the "skins" were just preferential type changes, that would be one thing. But many of the fixes within HN Enhancement Suite are basic UI fixes. Making links in profiles and text posts clickable. That's like the most basic thing you can do for your users. Adding the ability to collapse a massive comment thread without having to scroll to the top. Also, indent guides (especially needed for the massive threads around here). Shit, HN didn't even have collapsible comments for the longest time. Being able to comment inline and not having to navigate to a separate page where you lose context of the surrounding discussion. Highlighting new comments since you last viewed a thread. These are all basic things that HES addresses, there are many more I can point out. I'm not trying to insult the admins, I think they do an amazing job of running the site, but let's not pretend HN is some pinnacle of UX design. We are all just very used to it.
- 4y ago

torginus 4y ago

Still, going by the fate of new Reddit, there should be a 'hyppocratic oath' among UI designers, so that they make sure they don't make the user's experience worse in their quest for UX improvements. Adding a ton of features almost nobody uses and rearchitecting the site using 'modern' frameworks, only to make it 10x slower goes right againts that oath.

dntrkv 4y ago
Reddit's redesign sucks not because of new features or modern frameworks, but because they don't care about the web experience and spend all of their effort funneling users into their mobile app.