5 ms·

Or that every ducking time an application developer pushes an update, they feel the need to pop up something in front of me the next time I open the application

Or that every ducking time an application developer pushes an update, they feel the need to pop up something in front of me the next time I open the application. The worst time to do that is when I first open the application because that's when I've made the intentional choice to use it to get something done and the last thing I want is for that flow to be interrupted. The irritation is tripled if it's an un-skippable "let us walk you through the nineteen changes in a slowly constructed slideshow!" This is second only to applications that don't properly retain state--especially after an update--so every time I open them I get a brief glimpse of what once was (and what I probably wanted to go back to) before I get a 50/50 split of being dumped to the application home screen or "oops, something has gone wrong! lol, software, yannow! Please to be logging in once more, thx."

dleslie 4y ago
If your feature requires a tutorial _for all users_ then it shouldn't be shipped. I'm strict on this; I return video games with unskippable tutorials. It's cause for an immediate Alt-F4 and return to store.
- ThunderSizzle 4y ago
  How does Left 4 Dead's style fall in to this (assuming the intro vid would've required on first run) The tutorial is basically the intro video with some tool tips periodically in game.
- barnabee 4y ago
  If it requires a tutorial for all users, that’s called a manual and it doesn’t have to appear on launch or force you to read it. Unskippable step by step tooltip guides are the absolute worst. Many features are better off hard to find and left that way than shoved-in-your-face discoverable, or introduced by a tutorial. Those who want to get the most out of their tools will find them and will appreciate you treating them like fellow intelligent beings. The rest will never know what they missed and won’t worry about it either.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    > If it requires a tutorial for all users, that’s called a manual and it doesn’t have to appear on launch or force you to read it. Unskippable step by step tooltip guides are the absolute worst. Lots of game developers have conducted extensive research and found that player retention is considerably higher when you "annoy" them with these things rather than just throw them to the wolves and tell them to RTFM.
    - dleslie 4y ago
      As a game developer, I am aware of this. There's basically two reasons to make games: to make money, or to make art. You can try to do both at once, of course; and focusing on one doesn't necessarily detract from the other. Consider FromSoftware, for instance; often pilloried by the gaming press for their lack of difficulty scaling or tutorials, but adored by their fans and able to turn a tidy profit with each release. Similar, but less well-known, would be Spiderweb Software; which has steamrolled along for decades without breaking their artistic style. Not everyone wants to be the next Candy Crush or Clash of Clans; many just want to create an experience that they would enjoy.
      - babypuncher 4y ago
        I don't think the presence of tutorials automatically count against artistic merit, unless they are done badly. From Software games are more hands-off because their goal is to make the player discover the mechanics and systems on their own. Not every game wants to do that, and as such I don't think games like Halo: Combat Evolved or The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time are automatically worse for this. In the latter case, I think the unskippable tutorial section pulls double duty in setting up Link's backstory; You're with him as he first learns how to fight, use his shield, etc. before going off on a grand adventure. From Soft games are also not immune to the unskippable tutorial mission. Both Elden Ring and Sekiro start you off in a relatively safe linear level with pop ups teaching you their basic mechanics. I want to circle around back to the comment that started this though, because that user said they immediately uninstall and refund any game with an unskippable tutorial. Maybe they meant this as hyperbole and I'm just sitting here wooshed, but it seems like an extreme stance to take.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I can't imagine getting that pissed off over what is at worst a one-time 5-10 minute annoyance.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  If I applied this rigorous requirement to all games I purchase then I would have ended up missing out on some of the best games I've ever played. Like Ocarina of Time or Halo.
kbelder 4y ago
"We've improved the way you interact with our app!" >click next. Cursor slowly moves to the upper-right corner of the screen. "We've added a 'search by topic' functionality to our help menu! No more need to scroll alphabetically!" >click next Cursor slowly moves to the lower left corner of the screen. A red circles appears, pulsing. "The toolbar now displays the two-letter country code that your operating system is set to. Useful for travelers!" >click next Cursor slowly moves to the upper middle of the screen. A popup appears. "If you have forgotten to fill out your phone number and email address in the Account Options, a helpful reminder will appear each time you start the program. This will help you reap a number of useful benefits that sharing your information allows!"
- techsupporter 4y ago
  [opens new browser window on phone] [support . apple . com] "Hello, my inquiry is whether or not AppleCare+ covers spontaneously throwing my laptop out the window thus it falls down three stories into a storm drain. No, this is purely hypothetical. Yes, I'll wait while you research."

dleslie 4y ago

If your feature requires a tutorial _for all users_ then it shouldn't be shipped. I'm strict on this; I return video games with unskippable tutorials. It's cause for an immediate Alt-F4 and return to store.

ThunderSizzle 4y ago
How does Left 4 Dead's style fall in to this (assuming the intro vid would've required on first run) The tutorial is basically the intro video with some tool tips periodically in game.
barnabee 4y ago
If it requires a tutorial for all users, that’s called a manual and it doesn’t have to appear on launch or force you to read it. Unskippable step by step tooltip guides are the absolute worst. Many features are better off hard to find and left that way than shoved-in-your-face discoverable, or introduced by a tutorial. Those who want to get the most out of their tools will find them and will appreciate you treating them like fellow intelligent beings. The rest will never know what they missed and won’t worry about it either.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  > If it requires a tutorial for all users, that’s called a manual and it doesn’t have to appear on launch or force you to read it. Unskippable step by step tooltip guides are the absolute worst. Lots of game developers have conducted extensive research and found that player retention is considerably higher when you "annoy" them with these things rather than just throw them to the wolves and tell them to RTFM.
  - dleslie 4y ago
    As a game developer, I am aware of this. There's basically two reasons to make games: to make money, or to make art. You can try to do both at once, of course; and focusing on one doesn't necessarily detract from the other. Consider FromSoftware, for instance; often pilloried by the gaming press for their lack of difficulty scaling or tutorials, but adored by their fans and able to turn a tidy profit with each release. Similar, but less well-known, would be Spiderweb Software; which has steamrolled along for decades without breaking their artistic style. Not everyone wants to be the next Candy Crush or Clash of Clans; many just want to create an experience that they would enjoy.
    - babypuncher 4y ago
      I don't think the presence of tutorials automatically count against artistic merit, unless they are done badly. From Software games are more hands-off because their goal is to make the player discover the mechanics and systems on their own. Not every game wants to do that, and as such I don't think games like Halo: Combat Evolved or The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time are automatically worse for this. In the latter case, I think the unskippable tutorial section pulls double duty in setting up Link's backstory; You're with him as he first learns how to fight, use his shield, etc. before going off on a grand adventure. From Soft games are also not immune to the unskippable tutorial mission. Both Elden Ring and Sekiro start you off in a relatively safe linear level with pop ups teaching you their basic mechanics. I want to circle around back to the comment that started this though, because that user said they immediately uninstall and refund any game with an unskippable tutorial. Maybe they meant this as hyperbole and I'm just sitting here wooshed, but it seems like an extreme stance to take.
babypuncher 4y ago
I can't imagine getting that pissed off over what is at worst a one-time 5-10 minute annoyance.
babypuncher 4y ago
If I applied this rigorous requirement to all games I purchase then I would have ended up missing out on some of the best games I've ever played. Like Ocarina of Time or Halo.

kbelder 4y ago

"We've improved the way you interact with our app!" >click next. Cursor slowly moves to the upper-right corner of the screen. "We've added a 'search by topic' functionality to our help menu! No more need to scroll alphabetically!" >click next Cursor slowly moves to the lower left corner of the screen. A red circles appears, pulsing. "The toolbar now displays the two-letter country code that your operating system is set to. Useful for travelers!" >click next Cursor slowly moves to the upper middle of the screen. A popup appears. "If you have forgotten to fill out your phone number and email address in the Account Options, a helpful reminder will appear each time you start the program. This will help you reap a number of useful benefits that sharing your information allows!"

techsupporter 4y ago
[opens new browser window on phone] [support . apple . com] "Hello, my inquiry is whether or not AppleCare+ covers spontaneously throwing my laptop out the window thus it falls down three stories into a storm drain. No, this is purely hypothetical. Yes, I'll wait while you research."