4 ms·
I find modern meat factories abhorrent. While I'm not against eating meat, I cannot condone eating any that can be bought in our modern world. As even the best
by 411111111111111 4y ago
I find modern meat factories abhorrent. While I'm not against eating meat, I cannot condone eating any that can be bought in our modern world. As even the best places are complete horror shows.
Considering this, I find it incredibly obnoxious to use the term vegan in this fashion, somehow equating training a software on copyrighted material to literally torturing living, feeling and thinking animals for their short lives. It is so completely out of touch with reality that I'm just speechless.
- legohead 4y agoDo you feel the same when X person is compared to Hitler or a Nazi? Happens to pretty much every President...
- simonw 4y agoIt can be seen as offensive from both directions: - Artists: you’re comparing us to animals raised for meat now? - Animals: you’re saying killing and eating us is equivalent to stealing someone’s picture? Honestly though, the more I think about this particular analogy the more I like it. The key to the analogy isn't meant to be about eating animals compared to ripping off art though - it's about personal ethical choices. From the article: > ... my current mental model is to think about this in terms of veganism, as an analogy for people making their own personal ethical decisions.
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoi see..you are comparing a living being to art. how about AI Cannibal? apt, i feel...by your logic. and better than "AI vegan". everyone has access to human flesh and sadly only a few indulge in this opportunity. how about we leave vegans out of this?
- simonw 4y agoCannibalism doesn't work for me as an analogy to my personal ethics, because I am not a cannibal.
- hundchenkatze 4y agoBut you aren't a vegan either. Therefore veganism doesn't work for you as an analogy to your personal ethics? I'm confused.
- simonw 4y agoThat's exactly why this analogy does work. I believe that harming to animals is bad. And yet I still chose to eat them. I am not a vegan, even though I understand the moral reasoning for being one. I am uncomfortable that generative AIs are trained on images without the artists consent. And yet I still chose to use those models. If I _was_ a vegan with respect to animal products but chose to use AI models the analogy would not be as fitting for me. Note that I am not saying that either of my moral choices here are the correct ones!
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoI think you are focusing on the wrong questions. 1. Do you believe harming humans is bad? 2. Would you choose to eat them if they taste just like chicken? Perhaps the reason you choose not to eat humans is because it is illegal and is punishable to kill humans for food whereas killing animals for food is still acceptable in society. And hence it is an easy low hanging moralistic fruit to be vegan. It is also likely that you might be harmed if you consume human flesh.(Hello, prions!) There are multiple deterrents to becoming a cannibal vs eating like a non vegan. You haven’t made a moral choice at all when you consume animal flesh while still believing that harming animals is bad. Just like you haven’t made a moral choice at all when you appropriate other artists’ work without their consent. There is no ‘moral choice’ made here because you chose not to choose when there is no stick to be afraid of.. The only reason why it would be easy for AI art to exist is because it is not punishable. There is no law against it. In other words, people will continue indulging in their whims as long as there is no stick to punish them. Your thought?
- simonw 4y ago> You haven’t made a moral choice at all when you consume animal flesh while still believing that harming animals is bad. Just like you haven’t made a moral choice at all when you appropriate other artists’ work without their consent. You seem to be making my argument for me here: this is why I used the vegan analogy. Note that I am not saying that I have made the moral choice here, in either case! In both cases here I have decided to prioritize my own convenience over what can be argued as the morally "right" thing to do.
- holy_kek 4y ago
- tnzk 4y agoHere the tortured animals would be the artists taken away their jobs by AI models that trained with their own copyrighted contents.
- EGreg 4y agoCopyright and Patents are about using government force to enable a business model that couldn’t exist with purely voluntary transactions. People would have to find other ways to make money without enabling an enforcer with a peculiar laws about “owning ideas”. On the other hand, government is what can end factory farms. No market mechanism can do it since it actually makes a factory farm more competitive the more it cuts corners and costs on housing animals and fattens them with antibiotics. The people who don’t care about animal welfare might be persuaded if they realized just how much factory farms contribute to the rise of antibiotic resistant MRSA bacteria and other superbugs. They could make the past pandemic look like a cakewalk.
- charity_vegan 4y ago
- derekdahmer 4y agoThat’s reasonable, could you suggest a preferred generic term for “abstaining from consuming a category of products for ethical reasons?”
- EGreg 4y agopurist ? avoider? teetotaler? conscientious objector?
- laszlokorte 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]