5 ms·

This is why those that benefit from the current status quo are trying to dismantle and destroy education, right? We can't let the people read, know, or think ab

by jrs235 4y ago

This is why those that benefit from the current status quo are trying to dismantle and destroy education, right? We can't let the people read, know, or think about what you wrote. It's destabilizing and "dangerous" to their way of life.

coldtea 4y ago
Well, mass education was never about learning to read, know, or think. It was about making factory workers, clerks, and (later) office staff. Elite education, and especially luxury education for the children of the elite, was about learning to read, know, and think - mainly because it was still tied to an earlier humanistic and scholarly tradition where those things were important. That lasted a short while, say until the 70s. Now, even elite education is not about that kind of learning anymore, as those in power don't really need or appreciate those skills.
- lifeisstillgood 4y ago
  I think this is a re-work of "Chinas Totalitarian Bet". So there is a theory that the reason Middle East armies are basically expensive and crap is that the elites of the Saudis and Kuwaitis and Iraqis have loads of money but are despots and won't trust anyone but the most loyal / ethnically familial close with real power. So the tank battalions are lead not by talented colonels but by a cousin of the royal family. Spend six million training a nobody from nowhere Tom Cruise to be a fighter pilot? Make all the princes pilots. Let a sergeant train with a Anti Tank weapon. No way. They might aim at the cousin in his tank. This is the opposite of the (more) meritocratic USA. Decision making is pushed downwards and the coherent mission is aligning all. It is worth noting that a lot of ISIS / al-quida success is attributed to having to let go of this attitude - their central driving mission meant everyone was loyal, this decision making and training could be pushed right down into cells. Anyway I am not an expert here. The point being that Totalitarian regiemes have a hard time making militaries that are flexible and responsive. And that rolls over to factories and civil servants etc. Now the guardian writer Jon (?) and up with Chinas Totalitarian Bet - china knows this but thinks software and the surveillance state changes the game enough that either no-one can get out of line enough before their digital footprint catches them (again see al-qeueda) or that they can just give direct orders to be followed like Amazon warehouse packers and that will allow such flexibility and change. So yeah mass education was about teaching the masses to think. And the people in say Victorian Britain who said this will end their way of life were actually right - fortunately for us. The question now is can software replace our thinking? Can we all just do as we are told ? Will a society of drones be worth living in or even be productive enough to survive? And will the opposite, a more democratic more meritocratic and more fair and generous society be more productive innovative and worthwhile. I say Yes to the last and no to all others.
lifeisstillgood 4y ago
Err. I think that is quite extreme. What we are seeing is an increasing number of wealthy people trying to fit into a system designed for a smaller number. I mean Harvard takes on a freshman year of 2,000 out of something like 3 million 18 year olds. Most Ivy Leagues will have a small airport nearby. Usually Cessnas etc. On graduation day that thing is full of private Lear Jets. The plain old wealthy, someone who worked hard built a successful company and retires - the American dream kind of thing we imagine here on HN. That person does not get a ducking look in at Harvard. The system is failing everyone - which is kind of weird. But nah. I don't think there are back rooms with smoke and cackling bankers working out how to stop the poor from reading. I mean that was true in slave owning southern states but that's now just toned down to simple racism in the country club. The problem is that the racists in the country club are only slowly coming aware how much the system is ducking them. None of them are able to say their daughters got into Harvard. Hence Trumps popularity. He probably won't fix it but he at least says he will and blames the country club racists problems on the people that they hate (as opposed to the actual cause)

by jrs235 4y ago

coldtea 4y ago

Well, mass education was never about learning to read, know, or think. It was about making factory workers, clerks, and (later) office staff. Elite education, and especially luxury education for the children of the elite, was about learning to read, know, and think - mainly because it was still tied to an earlier humanistic and scholarly tradition where those things were important. That lasted a short while, say until the 70s. Now, even elite education is not about that kind of learning anymore, as those in power don't really need or appreciate those skills.

lifeisstillgood 4y ago
I think this is a re-work of "Chinas Totalitarian Bet". So there is a theory that the reason Middle East armies are basically expensive and crap is that the elites of the Saudis and Kuwaitis and Iraqis have loads of money but are despots and won't trust anyone but the most loyal / ethnically familial close with real power. So the tank battalions are lead not by talented colonels but by a cousin of the royal family. Spend six million training a nobody from nowhere Tom Cruise to be a fighter pilot? Make all the princes pilots. Let a sergeant train with a Anti Tank weapon. No way. They might aim at the cousin in his tank. This is the opposite of the (more) meritocratic USA. Decision making is pushed downwards and the coherent mission is aligning all. It is worth noting that a lot of ISIS / al-quida success is attributed to having to let go of this attitude - their central driving mission meant everyone was loyal, this decision making and training could be pushed right down into cells. Anyway I am not an expert here. The point being that Totalitarian regiemes have a hard time making militaries that are flexible and responsive. And that rolls over to factories and civil servants etc. Now the guardian writer Jon (?) and up with Chinas Totalitarian Bet - china knows this but thinks software and the surveillance state changes the game enough that either no-one can get out of line enough before their digital footprint catches them (again see al-qeueda) or that they can just give direct orders to be followed like Amazon warehouse packers and that will allow such flexibility and change. So yeah mass education was about teaching the masses to think. And the people in say Victorian Britain who said this will end their way of life were actually right - fortunately for us. The question now is can software replace our thinking? Can we all just do as we are told ? Will a society of drones be worth living in or even be productive enough to survive? And will the opposite, a more democratic more meritocratic and more fair and generous society be more productive innovative and worthwhile. I say Yes to the last and no to all others.

lifeisstillgood 4y ago

Err. I think that is quite extreme. What we are seeing is an increasing number of wealthy people trying to fit into a system designed for a smaller number. I mean Harvard takes on a freshman year of 2,000 out of something like 3 million 18 year olds. Most Ivy Leagues will have a small airport nearby. Usually Cessnas etc. On graduation day that thing is full of private Lear Jets. The plain old wealthy, someone who worked hard built a successful company and retires - the American dream kind of thing we imagine here on HN. That person does not get a ducking look in at Harvard. The system is failing everyone - which is kind of weird. But nah. I don't think there are back rooms with smoke and cackling bankers working out how to stop the poor from reading. I mean that was true in slave owning southern states but that's now just toned down to simple racism in the country club. The problem is that the racists in the country club are only slowly coming aware how much the system is ducking them. None of them are able to say their daughters got into Harvard. Hence Trumps popularity. He probably won't fix it but he at least says he will and blames the country club racists problems on the people that they hate (as opposed to the actual cause)