6 ms·

This was pretty much what the owner of small game park told me. The drones are too high tech and expensive for them to run. He said having small teams patrol e

by elp 4y ago

This was pretty much what the owner of small game park told me. The drones are too high tech and expensive for them to run. He said having small teams patrol every night worked better. When the teams haven't been able to patrol, for example due to flooded roads. He said it only took a couple of weeks before the poachers started showing up again. I always wonder if the better solution isn't to re-legalize ivory and rhino horn. All the game farms have room full of the stuff. Dumping that onto the market will kill the price, at the same time there is suddenly a financial incentive to keep the animals safe. Currently its $10k a horn on the black market vs a bit of tourism money to incentivize keeping the parks safe. The saddest part is that horn and tusks grow back so it could be a renewable resource if farmed properly. The poachers only kill.

spiffytech 4y ago
> Dumping that onto the market will kill the price I read a story a while back that some folks are dumping synthetic ivory onto the market to make prices fall.
- beebeepka 4y ago
  God bless them. I don't what makes people want ivory in the first place. Pure evil
- Kranar 4y ago
  This ends up making the situation worse. Legalization substantially increases demand far beyond what can be produced legally and ironically the value actually goes up and results in even more of the illegal product being produced. Furthermore it now becomes very difficult to distinguish between the legal and illegal product, providing criminals with an easy cover to launder the product. https://www.nber.org/papers/w22314 https://www.nber.org/papers/w22314 Statistics Canada has reported that after the legalization of weed, the black market has actually grown quite substantially (in absolute terms). https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-medication/cannabis/research-data/canadian-cannabis-survey-2021-summary.html https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-medica... At any rate, the point is that making things legal or available can often paradoxically significantly increase demand for the illegal product and in the process make it much easier for the black market to operate. And just to add in some controversy to the discussion, the same is true of prostitution. Almost all places that have legalized prostitution also have significantly higher rates of human trafficking including underage prostitutes.
jacquesm 4y ago
> I always wonder if the better solution isn't to re-legalize ivory and rhino horn. All the game farms have room full of the stuff. Dumping that onto the market will kill the price, at the same time there is suddenly a financial incentive to keep the animals safe. Until that stock runs out and then it is back to square #1.
- buscoquadnary 4y ago
  It's working for the buffalo. They were endangered until someone realized you could sell their meat as an "exotic" meat for more than a burger. Now the buffalo are all over the place. To paraphrase CGP Grey it turns out the best evolutionary advantage is being useful to humans. If any of the execs of Panda Express are reading this give me a call I got a big idea for your brand.
ricardobeat 4y ago
Elephant tusks are incisor teeth, nerves and all. They continue growing in length during their lifetime, but would be insanely painful if cut off, and cannot grow back.
mschuster91 4y ago
The problem can be better solved by getting the demand under control. China, one of the historic worst offenders, actually managed to do so [1], but Japan's legal market [2] still entices poachers and smugglers (who supply the black market in China [3]). [1] https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/demand-for-elephant-ivory-in-china-drops-to-lowest-level-since-national-ban https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/demand-for-elep... [2] https://asiatimes.com/2022/05/japan-sends-wrong-message-on-ivory-trade/ https://asiatimes.com/2022/05/japan-sends-wrong-message-on-i... [3] https://us.eia.org/campaigns/wildlife/elephants/japan-ivory/ https://us.eia.org/campaigns/wildlife/elephants/japan-ivory/
- jeltz 4y ago
  Vietnam is another huge market, especially for rhino horn.
bombcar 4y ago
Nah, legalize poacher hunting. Most dangerous game and such.
- sobkas 4y ago
  > Nah, legalize poacher hunting. Most dangerous game and such. Yeah that would totally not endanger(more than they already are) indigenous people living there. After all everyone knows how poachers look like.
  - arcticfox 4y ago
    Non-lethal methods only, obviously. It's basically a combination between bounty hunting and citizen's arrest laws. Not saying it couldn't be abused but it's not impossible to imagine it working. You might not even need bounties if people saw it as a sport. It's either that or potentially corrupt park rangers doing it - it's not like the existing system works great for anyone involved.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    We solve that with poacher-poacher-hunters. And it continues forever!
sweetheart 4y ago
The solution to a problem is never the commercialization of sentient beings.
- buscoquadnary 4y ago
  It saved the Buffalo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#Livestock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#Livestock Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
  - Spivak 4y ago
    If you care about the species giving humans an incentive to raise/protect them is pretty effective. If you care about the individual animal this is the worst thing you could do.
- Spivak 4y ago
  You'll have a 90 degree uphill battle if you want to convince people of that in general -- cows, chickens, goats, lab rats, all sorts of insects, bees, all pets, harvesting various animals for medicine.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - sweetheart 4y ago
    many uphill battles have been worth fighting before. this won’t be the last.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  > The solution to a problem is never the commercialization of sentient beings. Forbidding agriculture would not solve any of our problems. Unless you are trying to say that hum "all sentient beings are equal, but some are more equal than the other".
  - sweetheart 4y ago

by elp 4y ago

spiffytech 4y ago

> Dumping that onto the market will kill the price I read a story a while back that some folks are dumping synthetic ivory onto the market to make prices fall.

beebeepka 4y ago
God bless them. I don't what makes people want ivory in the first place. Pure evil
Kranar 4y ago
This ends up making the situation worse. Legalization substantially increases demand far beyond what can be produced legally and ironically the value actually goes up and results in even more of the illegal product being produced. Furthermore it now becomes very difficult to distinguish between the legal and illegal product, providing criminals with an easy cover to launder the product. https://www.nber.org/papers/w22314 https://www.nber.org/papers/w22314 Statistics Canada has reported that after the legalization of weed, the black market has actually grown quite substantially (in absolute terms). https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-medication/cannabis/research-data/canadian-cannabis-survey-2021-summary.html https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-medica... At any rate, the point is that making things legal or available can often paradoxically significantly increase demand for the illegal product and in the process make it much easier for the black market to operate. And just to add in some controversy to the discussion, the same is true of prostitution. Almost all places that have legalized prostitution also have significantly higher rates of human trafficking including underage prostitutes.

jacquesm 4y ago

> I always wonder if the better solution isn't to re-legalize ivory and rhino horn. All the game farms have room full of the stuff. Dumping that onto the market will kill the price, at the same time there is suddenly a financial incentive to keep the animals safe. Until that stock runs out and then it is back to square #1.

buscoquadnary 4y ago
It's working for the buffalo. They were endangered until someone realized you could sell their meat as an "exotic" meat for more than a burger. Now the buffalo are all over the place. To paraphrase CGP Grey it turns out the best evolutionary advantage is being useful to humans. If any of the execs of Panda Express are reading this give me a call I got a big idea for your brand.

ricardobeat 4y ago

Elephant tusks are incisor teeth, nerves and all. They continue growing in length during their lifetime, but would be insanely painful if cut off, and cannot grow back.

mschuster91 4y ago

The problem can be better solved by getting the demand under control. China, one of the historic worst offenders, actually managed to do so [1], but Japan's legal market [2] still entices poachers and smugglers (who supply the black market in China [3]). [1] https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/demand-for-elephant-ivory-in-china-drops-to-lowest-level-since-national-ban https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/demand-for-elep... [2] https://asiatimes.com/2022/05/japan-sends-wrong-message-on-ivory-trade/ https://asiatimes.com/2022/05/japan-sends-wrong-message-on-i... [3] https://us.eia.org/campaigns/wildlife/elephants/japan-ivory/ https://us.eia.org/campaigns/wildlife/elephants/japan-ivory/

jeltz 4y ago
Vietnam is another huge market, especially for rhino horn.

bombcar 4y ago

Nah, legalize poacher hunting. Most dangerous game and such.

sobkas 4y ago
> Nah, legalize poacher hunting. Most dangerous game and such. Yeah that would totally not endanger(more than they already are) indigenous people living there. After all everyone knows how poachers look like.
- arcticfox 4y ago
  Non-lethal methods only, obviously. It's basically a combination between bounty hunting and citizen's arrest laws. Not saying it couldn't be abused but it's not impossible to imagine it working. You might not even need bounties if people saw it as a sport. It's either that or potentially corrupt park rangers doing it - it's not like the existing system works great for anyone involved.
- bombcar 4y ago
  We solve that with poacher-poacher-hunters. And it continues forever!

sweetheart 4y ago

The solution to a problem is never the commercialization of sentient beings.

buscoquadnary 4y ago
It saved the Buffalo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#Livestock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison#Livestock Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
- Spivak 4y ago
  If you care about the species giving humans an incentive to raise/protect them is pretty effective. If you care about the individual animal this is the worst thing you could do.
Spivak 4y ago
You'll have a 90 degree uphill battle if you want to convince people of that in general -- cows, chickens, goats, lab rats, all sorts of insects, bees, all pets, harvesting various animals for medicine.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sweetheart 4y ago
  many uphill battles have been worth fighting before. this won’t be the last.
pvaldes 4y ago
> The solution to a problem is never the commercialization of sentient beings. Forbidding agriculture would not solve any of our problems. Unless you are trying to say that hum "all sentient beings are equal, but some are more equal than the other".
- sweetheart 4y ago