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Please excuse the long-winded answer... I have also given up on Apple, but mostly because I can't see the value in it anymore, otherwise my experience with the

Please excuse the long-winded answer... I have also given up on Apple, but mostly because I can't see the value in it anymore, otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory (Intel CPU models). For the past few years I used a Microsoft Surface Pro because it seemed to have good build quality and high screen resolution, but despite this I have had to replace it as part of a recall due to a graphics hardware issue, so it was not without its flaws. On a side note, I found the Windows OS to be OK for non-dev work, but would always "work" on the Linux subsystem... so even though Windows supports it quite well, I would just suggest 100% Linux. For 2022 I decided to buy a "gaming" laptop and switch to 100% Linux. The build quality is a little lower than Apple, and the screen resolution is not as good as Apple or Surface Pro, but it is still good, and when using my external monitor there is no difference. The benefits are clear, however, for less than 50% of the cost I am getting superior performance, discrete GPU, excellent cooling, and NO LOCK-IN. There is also the added benefit of being able to play the occasional video game with great performance. So far I don't regret it.

benjaminwootton 4y ago
I am the same with regards to value. Even though I can stretch to it, the prices for MacBooks in the UK are off the charts. Tempted to look elsewhere on principle next time.
- zivkovicp 4y ago
  That's really what did it for me, I like Apple products and think they are great quality, but I don't think they are good enough to justify the price; and for me, the "status" that comes with it (if any) is worthless.
andrei_says_ 4y ago
For me the value of Apple is to develop and design on the same machine, reliably. A privacy-oriented OS that allows me to run photoshop Lightroom etc. in addition to dev things. At this point I wouldn’t touch Windows with a 10-foot pole.
tmaly 4y ago
If your primary usage is development, I still think the resolution on the screen is a very important factor for your eyes.
ur-whale 4y ago
> For 2022 I decided to buy a "gaming" laptop and switch to 100% Linux. I researched this option before opting for an LG gram. I might research it again soon. Would you care to share exactly what gaming laptop you picked?
- zivkovicp 4y ago
  I bought an HP Victus 16", AMD CPU, 32GB RAM Ultimately the deciding factor was the price and the GeForce RTX 3070 GPU, it was on sale, and Linux drivers were available for all of the hardware. I'm running Pop! OS and haven't had any issues.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Not OP, but I've heard great things about the Asus ROG Zephyrus line, and that's what I'll probably get when i refresh my current Asus laptop which id approaching 8 years.
  - maxsilver 4y ago
    I love my older ROG Zephyrus G14. Use it everyday for heavy Ruby on Rails + Java, with some gaming on the side (Control, Warframe) It doesn't necessarily look great, but it's not offensively gamerish. There's a nice utility that lets you turn the fans off/on and GPU on/off, so it gets good battery life with GPU off. USB-C charging supported, nice matte screen, 120hz+ refresh rate. I have mine setup with 40gb of RAM (one 8GB dim is baked on, one is upgradable) and with a replacement Intel wifi chip. When I need a replacement, I'll probably get the newer 2022-ish G14. They upgraded the USB-C ports (both now support display out), they put better WiFi in by default, and they went all-AMD for CPU+GPU, all of which seem like great ideas to me.
  - geraldwhen 4y ago
    Asus rog laptops have high pitched, loud fans that run while idle. The trackpad is also terrible.
    - epage 4y ago
aerique 4y ago
Due to Lenovo shortages I could pick an MSI gaming laptop (GS66 Stealth) to replace my broken work laptop. It's awesome. Happily been running Guix on it for the past six months. (As expected, since it is Linux on an unsupported machine, I had to put in some time to get it running smoothly but the person after me does not have to do that anymore.)
- fbr 4y ago
  I'm super happy with it. The perf are great. 2 big drawbacks: the plastic is super fragile and you will need an external microphone (or your coworkers will complain about fan noises)
  - aerique 4y ago
    Have you tried this for fan noise?: https://github.com/TurboGraphxBeige/isw https://github.com/TurboGraphxBeige/isw
- mszcz 4y ago
  Did a similar thing about 1.5 years ago. Bought a Lenovo Legion 15 with 4800H Ryzen and 32 GB RAM. Upgraded the drives to 1 TB NVMe and 4 TB SATA SSD. It's super fast, discreet graphics, replaceable storage and still cost less than half of a similarity configed Macbook Pro.
  - specproc 4y ago
    Also a happy Legion user, although the power brick is obscene.
- zivkovicp 4y ago
  I bought an HP Victus, mostly because I came across a great deal and it has GeForce RTX 3070 graphics. I'm running Pop! OS linux and it worked out of the box, no special setup necessary. So far I'm happy with it and starting to ask myself why I didn't do this earlier. :)
feet 4y ago
Seconding this. Eluktronics has some well spec'ed machines
jmyeet 4y ago
The M1/M2 Macbooks are a total game-changer. You made your switch in the Intel era. I certainly get that because it was the dark days of the pointless Touch Bar and the awful butterfly keyboard. But now an M2 Macbook Air for $1500-2000 (depending on options) is hard to beat. The only complaint seems to be in heat distribution. Some people use a cheap heat spreader on their desk. Apple definitely chose a stylish package over optimal thermal design. It's an issue but not a major issue. EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF?
- skyyler 4y ago
  >EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF? >to a comment about laptop recommendations The thread's title is "Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?"
- neogodless 4y ago
  The thread is about having terrible support from Apple, and the comment you replied to was about getting away from lock-in, but you reply that the more efficient Apple Silicon is a "game-changer." It doesn't change any of the above deal breakers, so your comment comes off as tone deaf.
  - jmyeet 4y ago
    The comment I replied to was about bad experiences with Intel MBPs. Personally, I take no position on whether someone should or shouldn't use a Macbook. I'm not invested in that outcome. Use what you want. But, at the same time, the particular shortcomings of Intel silicon MBPs is now out-of-date and it seems worth mentioning that.
  - cruano 4y ago
    > the comment you replied to was about getting away from lock-in The comment was about them giving up on Apple because "I can't see the value in it anymore", and he pointed out how the value proposition changed with the non-intel macs Exactly which deal breakers do you mean? it literally says "otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory" ?

benjaminwootton 4y ago

I am the same with regards to value. Even though I can stretch to it, the prices for MacBooks in the UK are off the charts. Tempted to look elsewhere on principle next time.

zivkovicp 4y ago
That's really what did it for me, I like Apple products and think they are great quality, but I don't think they are good enough to justify the price; and for me, the "status" that comes with it (if any) is worthless.

andrei_says_ 4y ago

For me the value of Apple is to develop and design on the same machine, reliably. A privacy-oriented OS that allows me to run photoshop Lightroom etc. in addition to dev things. At this point I wouldn’t touch Windows with a 10-foot pole.

tmaly 4y ago

If your primary usage is development, I still think the resolution on the screen is a very important factor for your eyes.

ur-whale 4y ago

> For 2022 I decided to buy a "gaming" laptop and switch to 100% Linux. I researched this option before opting for an LG gram. I might research it again soon. Would you care to share exactly what gaming laptop you picked?

zivkovicp 4y ago
I bought an HP Victus 16", AMD CPU, 32GB RAM Ultimately the deciding factor was the price and the GeForce RTX 3070 GPU, it was on sale, and Linux drivers were available for all of the hardware. I'm running Pop! OS and haven't had any issues.
sofixa 4y ago
Not OP, but I've heard great things about the Asus ROG Zephyrus line, and that's what I'll probably get when i refresh my current Asus laptop which id approaching 8 years.
- maxsilver 4y ago
  I love my older ROG Zephyrus G14. Use it everyday for heavy Ruby on Rails + Java, with some gaming on the side (Control, Warframe) It doesn't necessarily look great, but it's not offensively gamerish. There's a nice utility that lets you turn the fans off/on and GPU on/off, so it gets good battery life with GPU off. USB-C charging supported, nice matte screen, 120hz+ refresh rate. I have mine setup with 40gb of RAM (one 8GB dim is baked on, one is upgradable) and with a replacement Intel wifi chip. When I need a replacement, I'll probably get the newer 2022-ish G14. They upgraded the USB-C ports (both now support display out), they put better WiFi in by default, and they went all-AMD for CPU+GPU, all of which seem like great ideas to me.
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  Asus rog laptops have high pitched, loud fans that run while idle. The trackpad is also terrible.
  - epage 4y ago

aerique 4y ago

Due to Lenovo shortages I could pick an MSI gaming laptop (GS66 Stealth) to replace my broken work laptop. It's awesome. Happily been running Guix on it for the past six months. (As expected, since it is Linux on an unsupported machine, I had to put in some time to get it running smoothly but the person after me does not have to do that anymore.)

fbr 4y ago
I'm super happy with it. The perf are great. 2 big drawbacks: the plastic is super fragile and you will need an external microphone (or your coworkers will complain about fan noises)
- aerique 4y ago
  Have you tried this for fan noise?: https://github.com/TurboGraphxBeige/isw https://github.com/TurboGraphxBeige/isw
mszcz 4y ago
Did a similar thing about 1.5 years ago. Bought a Lenovo Legion 15 with 4800H Ryzen and 32 GB RAM. Upgraded the drives to 1 TB NVMe and 4 TB SATA SSD. It's super fast, discreet graphics, replaceable storage and still cost less than half of a similarity configed Macbook Pro.
- specproc 4y ago
  Also a happy Legion user, although the power brick is obscene.
zivkovicp 4y ago
I bought an HP Victus, mostly because I came across a great deal and it has GeForce RTX 3070 graphics. I'm running Pop! OS linux and it worked out of the box, no special setup necessary. So far I'm happy with it and starting to ask myself why I didn't do this earlier. :)

feet 4y ago

Seconding this. Eluktronics has some well spec'ed machines

jmyeet 4y ago

The M1/M2 Macbooks are a total game-changer. You made your switch in the Intel era. I certainly get that because it was the dark days of the pointless Touch Bar and the awful butterfly keyboard. But now an M2 Macbook Air for $1500-2000 (depending on options) is hard to beat. The only complaint seems to be in heat distribution. Some people use a cheap heat spreader on their desk. Apple definitely chose a stylish package over optimal thermal design. It's an issue but not a major issue. EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF?

skyyler 4y ago
>EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF? >to a comment about laptop recommendations The thread's title is "Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?"
neogodless 4y ago
The thread is about having terrible support from Apple, and the comment you replied to was about getting away from lock-in, but you reply that the more efficient Apple Silicon is a "game-changer." It doesn't change any of the above deal breakers, so your comment comes off as tone deaf.
- jmyeet 4y ago
  The comment I replied to was about bad experiences with Intel MBPs. Personally, I take no position on whether someone should or shouldn't use a Macbook. I'm not invested in that outcome. Use what you want. But, at the same time, the particular shortcomings of Intel silicon MBPs is now out-of-date and it seems worth mentioning that.
- cruano 4y ago
  > the comment you replied to was about getting away from lock-in The comment was about them giving up on Apple because "I can't see the value in it anymore", and he pointed out how the value proposition changed with the non-intel macs Exactly which deal breakers do you mean? it literally says "otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory" ?