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> Isn't there value in having a single universal media routing framework that works across desktops, automobiles, and other applications? Consistency is a virtu

> Isn't there value in having a single universal media routing framework that works across desktops, automobiles, and other applications? Consistency is a virtue. Software development isn't about virtues, it's about making computers do useful stuff for us humans. Consistency can help or detract from that ; there's no such thing as an absolute virtue, only technical choices that happen in a specific set of circumstances. Audio is simple enough that it does not seem to cause too much problems but for instance Wayland is absolutely and entirely made worse by trying to shoehorn it both on cars UI (where you want something locked down) and on desktop UIs (where you want random software downloaded from the internet to be able to control the whole thing for e.g. screen recording, global hotkeys, window management mods, etc etc) which are wildly different use cases

duped 4y ago
> Audio is simple enough that it does not seem to cause too much problems Audio is not simple and causes tons of problems.
quotemstr 4y ago
> where you want random software downloaded from the internet to be able to control the whole thing for e.g. screen recording, global hotkeys, window management mods, etc etc I don't want "random software" to be able to do those things. I want to grant these powers to a few select applications and not to everyone else. X11 has no intra-session security model. This lack of security doesn't make it better for desktop or form a case for maintaining X and Wayland in parallel. To the extent Wayland still has trouble with clients that want to manage windows, it's a matter of missing protocol extensions, not architectural flaws in Wayland that make it and X11 fundamentally suited for different use-cases. You've chosen a poor example if you're trying to use Wayland to show that we need different software stacks for different use cases. Cross-use-case software stacks are common, work well, and are fundamental parts of the computing universe.
- jcelerier 4y ago
  > I want to grant these powers to a few select applications and not to everyone else. it's more-or-less fine to have a prompt on first app launch (although I have a few times worked with elderly users who literally could not use their computer to do what they wanted because of such prompts, especially on macOs which prompts left and right and trains users to blindly click "yes" or "no") > it's a matter of missing protocol extensions there is an infinite amount of missing protocol extensions. As long as it isn't able to fully emulate the win32 API (which is basically what "desktop" means in terms of features) it's not enough

duped 4y ago

> Audio is simple enough that it does not seem to cause too much problems Audio is not simple and causes tons of problems.

quotemstr 4y ago

> where you want random software downloaded from the internet to be able to control the whole thing for e.g. screen recording, global hotkeys, window management mods, etc etc I don't want "random software" to be able to do those things. I want to grant these powers to a few select applications and not to everyone else. X11 has no intra-session security model. This lack of security doesn't make it better for desktop or form a case for maintaining X and Wayland in parallel. To the extent Wayland still has trouble with clients that want to manage windows, it's a matter of missing protocol extensions, not architectural flaws in Wayland that make it and X11 fundamentally suited for different use-cases. You've chosen a poor example if you're trying to use Wayland to show that we need different software stacks for different use cases. Cross-use-case software stacks are common, work well, and are fundamental parts of the computing universe.

jcelerier 4y ago
> I want to grant these powers to a few select applications and not to everyone else. it's more-or-less fine to have a prompt on first app launch (although I have a few times worked with elderly users who literally could not use their computer to do what they wanted because of such prompts, especially on macOs which prompts left and right and trains users to blindly click "yes" or "no") > it's a matter of missing protocol extensions there is an infinite amount of missing protocol extensions. As long as it isn't able to fully emulate the win32 API (which is basically what "desktop" means in terms of features) it's not enough