4 ms·

> Sometimes it really does seem that "the cruelty is the point". This extends very far beyond Guantanamo. I really wonder where all these sick fucks come from.

> Sometimes it really does seem that "the cruelty is the point". This extends very far beyond Guantanamo. I really wonder where all these sick fucks come from. I don't remember much of a psycho vibe from classmates or work colleagues. Yet the US makes them in sufficient quantity that they seem to pop up wherever authority is. Prisons, police, military, they all seem to have endless human garbage that enjoys being cruel if they can. How has this country produced these "people" and why do they achieve positions of power instead of failure?

JKCalhoun 4y ago
I suspect they look for positions of power, sadly.
swatcoder 4y ago
Well, one answer would be that there’s no need for a “psycho vibe” on the road to heartless acts. It can look a lot more like complacency. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banality_of_evil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banali...
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
It's important to acknowledge that there's a tendency to consider certain sets of people subhuman and deserving of anything bad thing that happens to them. Consider how America treats its poor and its sick.
- blooalien 4y ago
  > "Consider how America treats its poor and its sick." No matter how valuable we were perceived to be or treated as (by some folk at least) prior to our illness (and subsequent "poor-ness"), or how valuable we're capable of being if only we could get one tiny shred of help or luck dealing with our medical needs, we're treated like worthless garbage and kicked to the curb to suffer miserably the moment we're no longer able to continue as a functional part of the money-producing machine for the rich and powerful. That's the truth of life on a planet where money is literally God to most people.
rexpop 4y ago
Haven't you encountered "The Banality of Evil," yet? It doesn't take "sick fucks" to operate a detainment facility and/or concentration camp. The staff at these institutions are simply operating in accordance with handed-down procedure designed in abstract by remote administrators.
- sofixa 4y ago
  I think a better book on this topic would be "Ordinary Men". It covers the "growth" of ordinary police reservists that had little to no Nazi tendencies to brutal mass murderers of Jewish men, women, children, elderly "just following orders". "The Banality of Evil" has legitimate criticisms directed at the book and most notably the narrative Eichmann sought to paint himself in (just an administrative employee), which contrasts with what his co-workers and superiors thought of him.
blacksmithgu 4y ago
Beauracracies can be extremely cruel without a single cruel person. All is takes is diffuse, disconnected decision making to produce ridiculous rules.
- bmitc 4y ago
  I have never felt more oppressed than when my wife was intentionally disallowed from re-entering the U.S. with me during COVID, since we happened to be out of the country when Trump levied his moronic bans against visa holders. It wasn't until Biden became president that she was able to return. If Trump had remained president, it's likely I would have had to leave the country to see her again. We were separated for 15 months, for literally no reason other than Trump's idiocy and a bureaucracy that has no thinking mind of its own. I felt helpless, and I think the scary thing was that I was helpless. No one cared, at all. There was not even a person you could speak to for help or guidance. It boggles the mind how these prisoners and others can remain even remotely sane during their times in literal holes and figurative holes of bureaucracy while being mentally and physically assaulted and tortured. While I do agree about the bureaucracy, I believe that these bureaucracies don't have to be this way. But what it requires is that the people in charge of the bureaucracies care about finding deficiencies and fixing them, assuming they aren't the ones directing the non-niceties in the first place.
  - moonshinefe 4y ago
    > No one cared, at all. I know the feeling, having been involved with the US immigration process since the start of covid & living here through the last couple Trump years.
- int_19h 4y ago
  In case of American law enforcement (of every level), it is not just that. It's permeated with that "sheep / wolf / sheepdog" mentality, thanks to Dave Grossman and his lectures. And once you've neatly subdivided people like that, it's only natural to dehumanize the "wolves" if you're the "sheepdog".

JKCalhoun 4y ago

I suspect they look for positions of power, sadly.

swatcoder 4y ago

Well, one answer would be that there’s no need for a “psycho vibe” on the road to heartless acts. It can look a lot more like complacency. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banality_of_evil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banali...

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

It's important to acknowledge that there's a tendency to consider certain sets of people subhuman and deserving of anything bad thing that happens to them. Consider how America treats its poor and its sick.

blooalien 4y ago
> "Consider how America treats its poor and its sick." No matter how valuable we were perceived to be or treated as (by some folk at least) prior to our illness (and subsequent "poor-ness"), or how valuable we're capable of being if only we could get one tiny shred of help or luck dealing with our medical needs, we're treated like worthless garbage and kicked to the curb to suffer miserably the moment we're no longer able to continue as a functional part of the money-producing machine for the rich and powerful. That's the truth of life on a planet where money is literally God to most people.

rexpop 4y ago

Haven't you encountered "The Banality of Evil," yet? It doesn't take "sick fucks" to operate a detainment facility and/or concentration camp. The staff at these institutions are simply operating in accordance with handed-down procedure designed in abstract by remote administrators.

sofixa 4y ago
I think a better book on this topic would be "Ordinary Men". It covers the "growth" of ordinary police reservists that had little to no Nazi tendencies to brutal mass murderers of Jewish men, women, children, elderly "just following orders". "The Banality of Evil" has legitimate criticisms directed at the book and most notably the narrative Eichmann sought to paint himself in (just an administrative employee), which contrasts with what his co-workers and superiors thought of him.

blacksmithgu 4y ago

Beauracracies can be extremely cruel without a single cruel person. All is takes is diffuse, disconnected decision making to produce ridiculous rules.

bmitc 4y ago
I have never felt more oppressed than when my wife was intentionally disallowed from re-entering the U.S. with me during COVID, since we happened to be out of the country when Trump levied his moronic bans against visa holders. It wasn't until Biden became president that she was able to return. If Trump had remained president, it's likely I would have had to leave the country to see her again. We were separated for 15 months, for literally no reason other than Trump's idiocy and a bureaucracy that has no thinking mind of its own. I felt helpless, and I think the scary thing was that I was helpless. No one cared, at all. There was not even a person you could speak to for help or guidance. It boggles the mind how these prisoners and others can remain even remotely sane during their times in literal holes and figurative holes of bureaucracy while being mentally and physically assaulted and tortured. While I do agree about the bureaucracy, I believe that these bureaucracies don't have to be this way. But what it requires is that the people in charge of the bureaucracies care about finding deficiencies and fixing them, assuming they aren't the ones directing the non-niceties in the first place.
- moonshinefe 4y ago
  > No one cared, at all. I know the feeling, having been involved with the US immigration process since the start of covid & living here through the last couple Trump years.
int_19h 4y ago
In case of American law enforcement (of every level), it is not just that. It's permeated with that "sheep / wolf / sheepdog" mentality, thanks to Dave Grossman and his lectures. And once you've neatly subdivided people like that, it's only natural to dehumanize the "wolves" if you're the "sheepdog".