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Interesting how different Judaism and Catholicism are in this way. My family lost forty people in the concentration camps, and there was simply no way we could
by drc500free 4y ago
Interesting how different Judaism and Catholicism are in this way. My family lost forty people in the concentration camps, and there was simply no way we could reconcile a belief in god with that. But I also grew up with a strong Jewish identity, and still practice many of the rituals.
I was probably in college before I really understood that other religious practices truly BELIEVED the stuff they were talking about, in a way that most Jews I knew didn't. It was like being really into Harry Potter, and one day finding out that everyone who was really into LOTR truly believed that Frodo was a real person who had gone on a journey with a magical ring. And that THEY were confused how you could talk so much about these fan theories and what is/isn't Harry Potter canon if you didn't deeply believe that there was a magical wizarding school hidden somewhere around Manchester.
When my Catholic friends would lose their faith, they pretty much stopped calling themselves Catholic. At most they might call themselves "lapsed," but they always made it very clear that they no longer considered it part of their identity and they didn't go to church. My friends with more fundamentalist upbringings became aggressively anti-religious, like the militant vegans of the religious world.
I think some of the reason Judaism sticks is that an individual relationship with God isn't a central tenet. The individual's primary relationship is with the community, it's the community that has a relationship/covenant with God. A lot of the practice and ethics are about how a person best contributes to a harmonious group. It also certainly helps that we keep changing languages - first Hebrew which I don't speak, then Aramaic which I also don't speak, then Yiddish which I also don't speak - so it's easy to go through the rituals without being smacked in the face with direct appeals to an almighty power. And Judaism is a "religion" somewhat more in the way that belief in Greek gods was a "religion," a part of life and culture that blends with more secular life and culture.
- zmgsabst 4y agoI think you’re underestimating the number of cultural Catholics and other Christians.
- drc500free 4y agoI’m quite sure I am. I also find that most people I’ve talked to about this underestimate how many Jews are atheists.
- amanaplanacanal 4y agoIt wasn’t until the late Roman Empire that what you believed in your mind really became important in religion. Before that, performing the rituals correctly was far more important.
- drc500free 4y agoDo you have any good resources in mind on this topic? I've been reading Boyarin's Border Lines, which hypothesizes that the concept of religion was created around that time to describe what kind of thing Christianity was, and to explicitly separate it from Judaism (which was cast as another thing of the same type by both sets of leaders). Really interesting perspective.
- cbsmith 4y agoA lot of the conversation these days is dominated by fundamentalists, so it always seems like people from other cultures are far more likely to have faith. I can tell you growing up, I was the wierd one for insisting that because I lacked faith, is not call myself a Christian.
- zozbot234 4y ago> ... My family lost forty people in the concentration camps, and there was simply no way we could reconcile a belief in god with that. ... I was probably in college before I really understood that other religious practices truly BELIEVED the stuff they were talking about Interesting to contrast this attitude with that of the Biblical authors who so clearly foretold even those horrifying events: "... If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god; Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart. Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter. Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever. Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and forgettest our affliction and our oppression? For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth. Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake."
- drc500free 4y agoThe ones who were slaughtered believed. We're rational enough to understand when direct evidence contradicts a hypothesis, thanks.
- andrepd 4y agoOh brother... if vague prophetic visions of doom to come is enough to impress you then maybe you consider the people who write the horoscope columns in magazines to be divinely inspired?
- SigmundA 4y agoInteresting to contrast the contents of the Bible with rational thought summed up perfectly by Epicurious: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? God creates ALL things including free will and evil, then punishes us for making certain choices he already knows we will make, lets bad things happen to good people because of some "plan". Sounds like a juvenile sadist with poor planning skills.
- omniglottal 4y ago
- fredley 4y agoIn the UK there are probably very few 'true believers' left in the Church of England, including within the priesthood. The church has been dying for decades, which personally I feel is a shame. There are many beautiful buildings, rituals and music that will die with it.