4 ms·

Jingoism. "Facebook may algorithmically subvert the foundations of society and democracy, but at least it's being done by a state I support."

1shooner 4y ago
Who is defending facebook in this discussion?
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Anybody who isn't trying to ban it as they try to ban TikTok, unless they see a material difference in the behavior of the applications other than hypernationalism. Ban both for kids. Double ban Instagram. If nobody has planted a flag in your moral center, you'll rarely find a reason to mention TikTok by name when talking about the manipulation and surveillance that social media decided it wants to be.
  - 1shooner 4y ago
    I have no love for facebook, but if we're talking about protecting kids from exploitative social media, it's probably beneficial to focus on platforms they actually use.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
suggestion 4y ago
If it's jingoism to support Western enlightenment values, liberal democracy, and basic human rights, then yeah I guess I'm a jingo.
- UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
  none of which are exclusive to 'western' countries and even less demonstrated by the actions of the big corporations and governments zuckerberg pelosi liz truss elon musk et al are not paragons of virtue and they are the people being defended here
- pessimizer 4y ago
  There's a patriot in China talking about you and your government in exactly the same way. And his government has a quarter of the incarceration rate the US does, and bases its governance on the work of one of Hegel's students.
  - boredtofears 4y ago
    What open forum is he able to freely discuss ideology, philosophy, and types of government again?
  - suggestion 4y ago
    The difference is he's objectively and provably wrong about the comparative evil of his own government. You've fallen for one of the most obvious and silly propaganda techniques there are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes You believe CCP furnished statistics?
SXX 4y ago
Not that I support Facebook, but it's impossible to be moral absolutist in today's world. You either support western democracy with all it's imperfections or you are supporting authoritarian / totalitarian states. Everyone who pretend to be "politically neutral" will always be helping later. UPD: Yeah I meant "later" and not "former". Corrected.
- UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
  who is 'you'? white people in the 10% of so of nato;anzac countries? maybe the rest of he world is not interested on keep perpetuating the status quo
  - SXX 4y ago
    > who is 'you'? Those of us who want to live in countries without concentration camps.
    - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
      like guantanamo ?
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  >Everyone who pretend to be "politically neutral" will always be helping former. I'll assume you mean latter, easy mistake to make. Personally I find the "if you aren't supporting the ridiculous things we're doing you're supporting the enemy" argument ridiculous. I'm capable of thinking both need to seriously change, and think it's a better use of my time to try and change the Western Democracy I am a part of as it's supposed to change if I disagree with it. It's strange how that point of view gets me labeled a (possibly unintentional) traitor.
  - SXX 4y ago
    I'm neither meant to mark anyone as traitor nor I like how Facebook affected society. At the same time I totally for any limitation or sanctions against media companies controlled by totalitarian or authoritarian states. Allowing literal "enemy" propoganda machines to run freely while they banned everything in their own countries is madness. Disclaimer: I'm not US or EU citizen. I just seen how my home country changed from liberal state of almost absolute freedom into authoritarism and then into fascism. Western democracies do all kind of things I dont like, but at least they dont risk to burn planet in nuclear fire.

1shooner 4y ago

Who is defending facebook in this discussion?

pessimizer 4y ago
Anybody who isn't trying to ban it as they try to ban TikTok, unless they see a material difference in the behavior of the applications other than hypernationalism. Ban both for kids. Double ban Instagram. If nobody has planted a flag in your moral center, you'll rarely find a reason to mention TikTok by name when talking about the manipulation and surveillance that social media decided it wants to be.
- 1shooner 4y ago
  I have no love for facebook, but if we're talking about protecting kids from exploitative social media, it's probably beneficial to focus on platforms they actually use.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

suggestion 4y ago

If it's jingoism to support Western enlightenment values, liberal democracy, and basic human rights, then yeah I guess I'm a jingo.

UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
none of which are exclusive to 'western' countries and even less demonstrated by the actions of the big corporations and governments zuckerberg pelosi liz truss elon musk et al are not paragons of virtue and they are the people being defended here
pessimizer 4y ago
There's a patriot in China talking about you and your government in exactly the same way. And his government has a quarter of the incarceration rate the US does, and bases its governance on the work of one of Hegel's students.
- boredtofears 4y ago
  What open forum is he able to freely discuss ideology, philosophy, and types of government again?
- suggestion 4y ago
  The difference is he's objectively and provably wrong about the comparative evil of his own government. You've fallen for one of the most obvious and silly propaganda techniques there are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes You believe CCP furnished statistics?

SXX 4y ago

Not that I support Facebook, but it's impossible to be moral absolutist in today's world. You either support western democracy with all it's imperfections or you are supporting authoritarian / totalitarian states. Everyone who pretend to be "politically neutral" will always be helping later. UPD: Yeah I meant "later" and not "former". Corrected.

UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
who is 'you'? white people in the 10% of so of nato;anzac countries? maybe the rest of he world is not interested on keep perpetuating the status quo
- SXX 4y ago
  > who is 'you'? Those of us who want to live in countries without concentration camps.
  - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
    like guantanamo ?
boomboomsubban 4y ago
>Everyone who pretend to be "politically neutral" will always be helping former. I'll assume you mean latter, easy mistake to make. Personally I find the "if you aren't supporting the ridiculous things we're doing you're supporting the enemy" argument ridiculous. I'm capable of thinking both need to seriously change, and think it's a better use of my time to try and change the Western Democracy I am a part of as it's supposed to change if I disagree with it. It's strange how that point of view gets me labeled a (possibly unintentional) traitor.
- SXX 4y ago
  I'm neither meant to mark anyone as traitor nor I like how Facebook affected society. At the same time I totally for any limitation or sanctions against media companies controlled by totalitarian or authoritarian states. Allowing literal "enemy" propoganda machines to run freely while they banned everything in their own countries is madness. Disclaimer: I'm not US or EU citizen. I just seen how my home country changed from liberal state of almost absolute freedom into authoritarism and then into fascism. Western democracies do all kind of things I dont like, but at least they dont risk to burn planet in nuclear fire.