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As far as I can tell, TikTok scares like these are 30% standard social media moral panic, 70% jingoism. Everyone knows that they are paying for TikTok with thei

As far as I can tell, TikTok scares like these are 30% standard social media moral panic, 70% jingoism. Everyone knows that they are paying for TikTok with their data and a few hundred million people (myself included) are okay with that calculus and making a rational, informed decision to continue using the product.

boredtofears 4y ago
Do you think children whom have social media thrusted upon them by their peer groups are capable of making rational, informed decisions?
suggestion 4y ago
You're not paying with your data, you're paying with the foundations of functioning society and democracy that are being algorithmically subverted by a totalitarian slave state. The very things that trend on TikTok in the West are banned and filtered in China for a reason.
- angio 4y ago
  That's because China has strict censorship laws while the US protects free speech. TikTok (like Meta) follows local regulations when it comes to their content.
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    lol… free speech for those who don’t rock the boat. Go ask someone in the US who criticizes Israel in any serious way how their employment prospects are going.
    - anothernewdude 4y ago
      Go ask the buried corpses of those in China who criticize the CCP anything.
      - miguelazo 4y ago
        Utterly ridiculous, jingoistic nonsense. This isn't the Cultural Revolution.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - stjohnswarts 4y ago
        Or the ones who are tortured for years before getting dumped, half dead, on a random street corner.
        miguelazo 4y ago
        I suppose you have some evidence of this???
  - suggestion 4y ago
    No it's because TikTok is owned by the CCP and used as a tool to sow discord and subvert liberal democratic values so that it may destabilize the west and pave the way for CCP supremacy.
    - angio 4y ago
      That's a conspiracy theory with, so far, no confirmation.
      - suggestion 4y ago
        Which part is a conspiracy theory?
        angio 4y ago
        That the content is promoted to create disorder. Facebook has similar issues (they're even being sued for contributing to genocide) but they were never accused of the same thing (but mostly of negligence).
        pessimizer 4y ago
        This thing started with Facebook being accused of being the conduit for the stealing of the 2016 election through 100K worth of ads featuring Bernie shirtless. It's hard to remember because they got utterly bored with it eventually, and they have relatives that they brag work at Facebook.
        stjohnswarts 4y ago
        Facebook wasn't created to create social disorder as a first principle, it was created to be addictive and make MarkZ and crew billionaires. TikTok is being used to do something similar but it is completely designed to do that by a foreign power and use algorithms specifically to damage the psyche of westerners with distracting videos, tuning them to give just enough of a dopamine buzz to keep you there and coming back, and in general distract youth from pursuing more enlightening and educational activities while building a psychological profile on them to be filed away for future clandestine purposes. Or that's just my 5 minute take on it.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  Jingoism. "Facebook may algorithmically subvert the foundations of society and democracy, but at least it's being done by a state I support."
  - 1shooner 4y ago
    Who is defending facebook in this discussion?
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Anybody who isn't trying to ban it as they try to ban TikTok, unless they see a material difference in the behavior of the applications other than hypernationalism. Ban both for kids. Double ban Instagram. If nobody has planted a flag in your moral center, you'll rarely find a reason to mention TikTok by name when talking about the manipulation and surveillance that social media decided it wants to be.
      - 1shooner 4y ago
        I have no love for facebook, but if we're talking about protecting kids from exploitative social media, it's probably beneficial to focus on platforms they actually use.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - suggestion 4y ago
    If it's jingoism to support Western enlightenment values, liberal democracy, and basic human rights, then yeah I guess I'm a jingo.
    - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
      none of which are exclusive to 'western' countries and even less demonstrated by the actions of the big corporations and governments zuckerberg pelosi liz truss elon musk et al are not paragons of virtue and they are the people being defended here
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  This is some peak moral panic material, mixed with a healthy dose of irrational nationalism (which was planted into your mind with intention, just a hint).
  - suggestion 4y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_...
    - ssnistfajen 4y ago
      And your point is?
Nicksil 4y ago
>As far as I can tell, TikTok scares like these are 30% standard social media moral panic, 70% jingoism. Everyone knows that they are paying for TikTok with their data and a few hundred million people (myself included) are okay with that calculus and making a rational, informed decision to continue using the product. This is just silly. The overwhelming majority of people have no idea of what any of that means thus have not made any such calculus.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  No, that's silly. The overwhelming majority of people probably know just as much as you and I do about the uses to which TikTok puts the data they gather. Which is why conversations about TikTok immediately move into attacks on the Chinese government and Chinese people rather than discussing a single material effect that their data gathering or use has or could have on anyone's life. The difficulty with discussing material objections to TikTok is that people would immediately enter areas that they personally have a hand in working on and/or investing in, and would lobby to preserve. They want American data to go to American oligarchs.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    > The overwhelming majority of people probably know just as much as you and I do about the uses to which TikTok puts the data they gather. As a very technical person in this industry, do you really think you don't have a better understanding of the data TikTok collects and what it will be used for than Average TikTok User?
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Absolutely. Not only do I think that the general public has a good, though vague idea of what their social media data is used for, but I also think they're rationally alarmed about it (aside from the anti-China, anti-Russia, anti-Republican, anti-Democrat talking points they're taught to repeat by people who should be trustworthy.) We like to call users stupid or confused for using something that is bad, then we only give them one choice. People aren't using Facebook because they don't care about what's happening to them, the use it because it's the only/easiest way to get certain things done and they have other problems in their lives to worry about.
somescarygirl 4y ago
25% of their user base are kids in the age range of 10-19 world wide and that goes up to 32% is you look at the US. Do you really think most of them are making rational decisions about their data? Take a look at studies on brain development and rational thinking. Combine that with literacy rates and data privacy understanding... the overwhelming majority of their users are not making rational or informed decisions.

boredtofears 4y ago

Do you think children whom have social media thrusted upon them by their peer groups are capable of making rational, informed decisions?

suggestion 4y ago

You're not paying with your data, you're paying with the foundations of functioning society and democracy that are being algorithmically subverted by a totalitarian slave state. The very things that trend on TikTok in the West are banned and filtered in China for a reason.

angio 4y ago
That's because China has strict censorship laws while the US protects free speech. TikTok (like Meta) follows local regulations when it comes to their content.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  lol… free speech for those who don’t rock the boat. Go ask someone in the US who criticizes Israel in any serious way how their employment prospects are going.
  - anothernewdude 4y ago
    Go ask the buried corpses of those in China who criticize the CCP anything.
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      Utterly ridiculous, jingoistic nonsense. This isn't the Cultural Revolution.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - stjohnswarts 4y ago
      Or the ones who are tortured for years before getting dumped, half dead, on a random street corner.
      - miguelazo 4y ago
        I suppose you have some evidence of this???
- suggestion 4y ago
  No it's because TikTok is owned by the CCP and used as a tool to sow discord and subvert liberal democratic values so that it may destabilize the west and pave the way for CCP supremacy.
  - angio 4y ago
    That's a conspiracy theory with, so far, no confirmation.
    - suggestion 4y ago
      Which part is a conspiracy theory?
      - angio 4y ago
        That the content is promoted to create disorder. Facebook has similar issues (they're even being sued for contributing to genocide) but they were never accused of the same thing (but mostly of negligence).
        pessimizer 4y ago
        This thing started with Facebook being accused of being the conduit for the stealing of the 2016 election through 100K worth of ads featuring Bernie shirtless. It's hard to remember because they got utterly bored with it eventually, and they have relatives that they brag work at Facebook.
        stjohnswarts 4y ago
        Facebook wasn't created to create social disorder as a first principle, it was created to be addictive and make MarkZ and crew billionaires. TikTok is being used to do something similar but it is completely designed to do that by a foreign power and use algorithms specifically to damage the psyche of westerners with distracting videos, tuning them to give just enough of a dopamine buzz to keep you there and coming back, and in general distract youth from pursuing more enlightening and educational activities while building a psychological profile on them to be filed away for future clandestine purposes. Or that's just my 5 minute take on it.
boomboomsubban 4y ago
Jingoism. "Facebook may algorithmically subvert the foundations of society and democracy, but at least it's being done by a state I support."
- 1shooner 4y ago
  Who is defending facebook in this discussion?
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Anybody who isn't trying to ban it as they try to ban TikTok, unless they see a material difference in the behavior of the applications other than hypernationalism. Ban both for kids. Double ban Instagram. If nobody has planted a flag in your moral center, you'll rarely find a reason to mention TikTok by name when talking about the manipulation and surveillance that social media decided it wants to be.
    - 1shooner 4y ago
      I have no love for facebook, but if we're talking about protecting kids from exploitative social media, it's probably beneficial to focus on platforms they actually use.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- suggestion 4y ago
  If it's jingoism to support Western enlightenment values, liberal democracy, and basic human rights, then yeah I guess I'm a jingo.
  - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
    none of which are exclusive to 'western' countries and even less demonstrated by the actions of the big corporations and governments zuckerberg pelosi liz truss elon musk et al are not paragons of virtue and they are the people being defended here
ssnistfajen 4y ago
This is some peak moral panic material, mixed with a healthy dose of irrational nationalism (which was planted into your mind with intention, just a hint).
- suggestion 4y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_...
  - ssnistfajen 4y ago
    And your point is?

Nicksil 4y ago

>As far as I can tell, TikTok scares like these are 30% standard social media moral panic, 70% jingoism. Everyone knows that they are paying for TikTok with their data and a few hundred million people (myself included) are okay with that calculus and making a rational, informed decision to continue using the product. This is just silly. The overwhelming majority of people have no idea of what any of that means thus have not made any such calculus.

pessimizer 4y ago
No, that's silly. The overwhelming majority of people probably know just as much as you and I do about the uses to which TikTok puts the data they gather. Which is why conversations about TikTok immediately move into attacks on the Chinese government and Chinese people rather than discussing a single material effect that their data gathering or use has or could have on anyone's life. The difficulty with discussing material objections to TikTok is that people would immediately enter areas that they personally have a hand in working on and/or investing in, and would lobby to preserve. They want American data to go to American oligarchs.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > The overwhelming majority of people probably know just as much as you and I do about the uses to which TikTok puts the data they gather. As a very technical person in this industry, do you really think you don't have a better understanding of the data TikTok collects and what it will be used for than Average TikTok User?
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Absolutely. Not only do I think that the general public has a good, though vague idea of what their social media data is used for, but I also think they're rationally alarmed about it (aside from the anti-China, anti-Russia, anti-Republican, anti-Democrat talking points they're taught to repeat by people who should be trustworthy.) We like to call users stupid or confused for using something that is bad, then we only give them one choice. People aren't using Facebook because they don't care about what's happening to them, the use it because it's the only/easiest way to get certain things done and they have other problems in their lives to worry about.

somescarygirl 4y ago

25% of their user base are kids in the age range of 10-19 world wide and that goes up to 32% is you look at the US. Do you really think most of them are making rational decisions about their data? Take a look at studies on brain development and rational thinking. Combine that with literacy rates and data privacy understanding... the overwhelming majority of their users are not making rational or informed decisions.