4 ms·

I said silly, not stupid. No insult implied -- we all sometimes ask "wrong" questions. Clinton actually was the better choice; in fact, technically one of the

I said silly, not stupid. No insult implied -- we all sometimes ask "wrong" questions. Clinton actually was the better choice; in fact, technically one of the most qualified candidates in history (trained lawyer, 8 years in the white house next to the president, a stint as US senator and then as secretary of state). Versus a reality teevee "billionaire" with a long track record of (likely) criminal behavior and clear narcissistic tendencies. It was a popularity contest and Mrs. Clinton, whilst intelligent and experienced, lacks the charisma of her husband and has had decades of coordinated conditioning of hate. Hell, I voted for her and resented her for being the only choice (but could safely assume she'd at least hold to the status quo). I felt like she thought she was entitled to the office.... > rural voters have suffered economic devastation from government policies I challenge that -- re: the government. They have been decimated but by big business that moved their jobs offshore. Anything the government did to allow that was influenced by same big business that effectively controls the government. And that quiet part out loud? I see plenty of evidence to support that as a theme (and why I asked about your faith). We are not rational actors, we are emotional responders (yes, there are exceptions but it still holds). Gods, Guns, and Gays are mainstays of political messaging to instill fear and anger. Just look at the anti-trans stuff happening now: fear baiting. The party of small government wants to pass laws against people having control over their own bodies. As a nod to the concerns in that realm, I recognize and agree that athletic competition should be able to decide if/how they want to allow competition with transitioned people. One last thought for this pass: I encountered a Trump supporter who declared she hoped Trump would "burn Washington to the ground". I assume she's not alone in that, and that frustration is understandable. But.... then you're left with nothing and need to rebuild and no thought is given to what should rise up to replace it. Hating government is stupid, as "government" is inevitable in society and as bad as it is today there's plenty of ways to make it worse (e.g., a Kleptocratic Mafia State like Russia (whose head Mr. Trump appears to be unduly devoted to)).

rendall 4y ago
> Clinton actually was the better choice; in fact, technically one of the most qualified candidates in history Personally speaking, I did not like how she and her colluders ran down the Sanders campaign. Their characterization of his supporters as sexists and racist was fundamentally, profoundly dishonest. They could have addressed his policy proposals, but went the other way. This led me to understand that this would be what we could expect from her Presidency. Before that, I was open to Clinton. After her loss, I had been hoping for a Democratic party introspection about the way they had run this campaign and a house cleaning. Instead, we got enablers, diversion and outright lies. A shuffling of the worst actors, but no purge. Extremely disappointing. We still have never had an honest accounting for that debacle, and I remember and distrust every news outlet and commentator that repeated those lies. I want to be clear that I did not vote for Trump, either. But he was not the worst President in my living memory. That honor goes to the President who lied to the public in order to get us into two (2) ruinous, useless wars and did not adequately prepare successfully for the occupation. Honestly, not having tentacles throughout government is a bonus, to my mind.
- pstuart 4y ago
  I was pissed when the DNC conspired against Sanders. I also think that her politics were of "hold finger in the air to see which way the wind blows" (the antithesis of Sanders). She's also a hawk and too chummy with our corporate overlords. But in the general election not voting for the lesser candidate is effectively voting for the worse candidate (unless done after one's state has been decided). As for worst, your choice is understandable and I'm not going to directly contest it. At least Bush was somebody I'd enjoy having a beer with ;-) And as to the introspection I think a problem with that is that the military is deified and the masses get angry when you diss the troops. Plus ye olde Military Industrial Complex locks in all districts for their share of the loot. Dems suck at messaging, unlike the Right. People in general don't seem to care enough and only want soundbites, which makes it hard to have those discussions because nuance gets lost. Not sure about the tentacles thing.
  - rendall 4y ago
    The government has broken its social contract with the people, and it has become an extractive kleptocracy. This happened starting with Reagan, Bush the Elder, Clinton, Bush the Younger, and yes, Obama. None of these people - nor anyone in Congress - made it better. Not the Republicans, not the Democrats. Trump? Not him either. I tell you, pstuart, Trump was a Hail Mary pass by people who have had everything taken from them by Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, and from their perspective they saw only obstruction and lies from the same people who have nothing but contempt for them. And that quiet part out loud? I see plenty of evidence to support that as a theme (and why I asked about your faith). People like yourself, unfortunately. They knew - knew it after decades of betrayal - that their situation would absolutely not have changed under Clinton 2.0 and certainly will not under Biden. These are the people who voted for Trump. Look at them. Really look past your coastal prejudices. Look past what you have been told about these people. If you get squicked, or believe somehow they deserve this, you are not on the side of compassion, to be honest. https://youtu.be/oT7_8S5K9oA?t=834 https://youtu.be/oT7_8S5K9oA?t=834 So, you keep saying I have selective outrage, but then you hammer on Trump and co but give Biden a pass. Me, I give neither a pass. They're both assholes. The same corporate media that's telling you that Trump is bad is also telling you Biden is good. And you do your "gut check" media discrimination. I'll give you a quick smoke test to see whether a media outlet lies. You won't like it, you won't believe me, and if you decide that I'm correct anyway, you'll dismiss its importance, but here goes: If you look back into the archives of a news source, and they said that Trump called Mexicans rapists, then you know they are liars and they lie about other things.

rendall 4y ago

> Clinton actually was the better choice; in fact, technically one of the most qualified candidates in history Personally speaking, I did not like how she and her colluders ran down the Sanders campaign. Their characterization of his supporters as sexists and racist was fundamentally, profoundly dishonest. They could have addressed his policy proposals, but went the other way. This led me to understand that this would be what we could expect from her Presidency. Before that, I was open to Clinton. After her loss, I had been hoping for a Democratic party introspection about the way they had run this campaign and a house cleaning. Instead, we got enablers, diversion and outright lies. A shuffling of the worst actors, but no purge. Extremely disappointing. We still have never had an honest accounting for that debacle, and I remember and distrust every news outlet and commentator that repeated those lies. I want to be clear that I did not vote for Trump, either. But he was not the worst President in my living memory. That honor goes to the President who lied to the public in order to get us into two (2) ruinous, useless wars and did not adequately prepare successfully for the occupation. Honestly, not having tentacles throughout government is a bonus, to my mind.

pstuart 4y ago
I was pissed when the DNC conspired against Sanders. I also think that her politics were of "hold finger in the air to see which way the wind blows" (the antithesis of Sanders). She's also a hawk and too chummy with our corporate overlords. But in the general election not voting for the lesser candidate is effectively voting for the worse candidate (unless done after one's state has been decided). As for worst, your choice is understandable and I'm not going to directly contest it. At least Bush was somebody I'd enjoy having a beer with ;-) And as to the introspection I think a problem with that is that the military is deified and the masses get angry when you diss the troops. Plus ye olde Military Industrial Complex locks in all districts for their share of the loot. Dems suck at messaging, unlike the Right. People in general don't seem to care enough and only want soundbites, which makes it hard to have those discussions because nuance gets lost. Not sure about the tentacles thing.
- rendall 4y ago
  The government has broken its social contract with the people, and it has become an extractive kleptocracy. This happened starting with Reagan, Bush the Elder, Clinton, Bush the Younger, and yes, Obama. None of these people - nor anyone in Congress - made it better. Not the Republicans, not the Democrats. Trump? Not him either. I tell you, pstuart, Trump was a Hail Mary pass by people who have had everything taken from them by Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, and from their perspective they saw only obstruction and lies from the same people who have nothing but contempt for them. And that quiet part out loud? I see plenty of evidence to support that as a theme (and why I asked about your faith). People like yourself, unfortunately. They knew - knew it after decades of betrayal - that their situation would absolutely not have changed under Clinton 2.0 and certainly will not under Biden. These are the people who voted for Trump. Look at them. Really look past your coastal prejudices. Look past what you have been told about these people. If you get squicked, or believe somehow they deserve this, you are not on the side of compassion, to be honest. https://youtu.be/oT7_8S5K9oA?t=834 https://youtu.be/oT7_8S5K9oA?t=834 So, you keep saying I have selective outrage, but then you hammer on Trump and co but give Biden a pass. Me, I give neither a pass. They're both assholes. The same corporate media that's telling you that Trump is bad is also telling you Biden is good. And you do your "gut check" media discrimination. I'll give you a quick smoke test to see whether a media outlet lies. You won't like it, you won't believe me, and if you decide that I'm correct anyway, you'll dismiss its importance, but here goes: If you look back into the archives of a news source, and they said that Trump called Mexicans rapists, then you know they are liars and they lie about other things.