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I very much agree with him regarding DRM, and I understand why it puts him off launching audiobooks on Audible. Still, it is worth commenting that there are tr

I very much agree with him regarding DRM, and I understand why it puts him off launching audiobooks on Audible. Still, it is worth commenting that there are trivial ways to remove DRM from Audible files. I myself do it to my own collection, partly out of "lockout prevention", and partly so that I can listen to the books using apps that I find infinitely more covenient and feature rich than Audible's own (shout-out to Podcast Addict). I won't detail how it is done, out of respect for the fact that HN is based in a jurisdiction where the DMCA represses free speech on the topic. However, Doctorow could always release his audiobooks on Audible while pointing with plausible deniability towards information on how to remove DRM, hosted from countries where we're lucky enough that talking about technical procedures is not a crime.

failrate 4y ago
It is trivial for you, but it is impossible for most audiobook listeners. Most people do not have the same computer wherewithal as us.
- gwd 4y ago
  I have some friends who are quite non-technical, who told me that they were were aware of (and subsequently purchased) some software that they knew could remove the DRM from Audible books (before I got a chance to tell them I'd be happy to help them out for free).
- Mordisquitos 4y ago
  Yes, that is why I suggest making the explanation and process more readily available. Non-tech savvy users who already care about the problems of DRM should kmow it is possible to remove it, and ideally have access to a user-friendly way to do it. On the other hand, those who don't even know what DRM is or why it matters may get greater exposure to the issue.
  - failrate 4y ago
    How about this ease of use feature: Audible drops DRM. Everyone wins.
exotree 4y ago
https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-to-remove-drm-1670223538 https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-t...
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
This is why I don’t mind buying TV Shows on iTunes. What I ultimately want is a DRM Free file, and I know how to losslessly strip DRM from iTunes media, so whatever, I’ll go ahead and buy whatever I want to watch. The difference with audiobooks, though, is there are several audiobook retailers that are natively DRM Free, such as downpour and libro.fm. Why buy from the DRM’d vendor, who could increase their protection at any time, when you have DRM-Free options you could be giving your money to instead?
- Macha 4y ago
  Is there an updated way since TunesKit got broken and you needed to keep around an old version of iTunes for Windows (which apple will eventually break)?
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    No, I just use the old version of iTunes in a virtual machine. When Apple breaks it, I'll stop buying things on iTunes. But I already have DRM-Free copies of all my current purchases. And then for new movies I use Amazon alongside a different program which works with that.
beckman466 4y ago
> it is worth commenting that there are trivial ways to remove DRM from Audible files. say i share with a loved one or close friend the de-DRM'd audiobook. now their computer becomes infected with a RAT, and 'my' file/audiobook fingerprinted with the proprietary fingerprint algorithm (to identify me as the unique purchaser, the same techniques are probably applied industry wide) is leaked online as a consequence (or their backup system is compromised or any kind of infosec violation out of the hands of my friend). next, Amazon corp identifies me. their immediate next step: lawsuit on me as an individual because 'my' file is now leaked on p2p filesharing sites and forums without me knowing about it. capitalist-enforced DRM is cancer because it's artificial scarcity imposed on a non-scarce resource (computer data/audio file). it's the result of trying to work with the limited and violent toolsets of a capitalist economy. the internet is still young and there are likely so many better options for publishing things. for example, an author i've followed for a while by the name of Charles Eisenstein has a deal with his publisher, North Atlantic Books, to initially launch his book as paperback only, and then after a six month period, his whole book is available free to read on his website (also of course there's the wonderful Library Genesis). The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible by Charles Eisenstein: https://charleseisenstein.org/books/the-more-beautiful-world-our-hearts-know-is-possible/eng/initiation https://charleseisenstein.org/books/the-more-beautiful-world... (i love the final story 'A Gathering of the Tribe') i just wanted to add my two cents after seeing encouraging discussions/debates here on this page. hybrid strategies like Eisenstein's give me signals that ultimately make me feel hopeful for a post-capitalist society which would allow any child to listen to any audiobook (and be infinitely curious in whichever direction feels most natural for them), regardless of whether their parents can afford Audible/Storytel/whatever. i focus on a child's curiosity because they suffer the most from the capitalist commoditization of culture and science and more. "How does Audio Fingerprinting work": https://emysound.com/blog/open-source/2020/06/12/how-audio-fingerprinting-works.html https://emysound.com/blog/open-source/2020/06/12/how-audio-f...
- knaik94 4y ago
  The audio fingerprinting is used by services like shazam to identify music, not a per user re-encode of every single song in order to find out leaks. The watermarked music files I have come across only go as far as identifying the distribution service, not an individual. From what I remember the metadata of account information is added as an editable extended tags. I actually don't know if audiobooks are even tagged by account in audible's case, it's true for iTunes. Children will have access to free audio books in the US as long as libraries are around. I can get digital audiobooks for free from my library. Libby/Overdrive and Hoopla are great, especially for children's audiobooks. I don't know if your argument against using dedrm tools even makes sense. The point is that you shouldn't share your decrypted audiobooks. It shouldn't matter what happens to your friend's computer. More importantly, an audiobook isn't important enough to steal, that a giant leap. Dedrming an audiobook is the only way I know to make sure that one day audible won't wake up and say, no we don't want you listening to that book anymore and just take it off their platform after I have paid for it. That's not a theoretical, that's already happened to some with certain kindle books.
paulryanrogers 4y ago
You can buy some of his work in podcast form already https://attacksurface.supportingcast.fm/ https://attacksurface.supportingcast.fm/ Full disclosure, powered by my employer.

failrate 4y ago

It is trivial for you, but it is impossible for most audiobook listeners. Most people do not have the same computer wherewithal as us.

gwd 4y ago
I have some friends who are quite non-technical, who told me that they were were aware of (and subsequently purchased) some software that they knew could remove the DRM from Audible books (before I got a chance to tell them I'd be happy to help them out for free).
Mordisquitos 4y ago
Yes, that is why I suggest making the explanation and process more readily available. Non-tech savvy users who already care about the problems of DRM should kmow it is possible to remove it, and ideally have access to a user-friendly way to do it. On the other hand, those who don't even know what DRM is or why it matters may get greater exposure to the issue.
- failrate 4y ago
  How about this ease of use feature: Audible drops DRM. Everyone wins.

exotree 4y ago

https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-to-remove-drm-1670223538 https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-t...

Wowfunhappy 4y ago

This is why I don’t mind buying TV Shows on iTunes. What I ultimately want is a DRM Free file, and I know how to losslessly strip DRM from iTunes media, so whatever, I’ll go ahead and buy whatever I want to watch. The difference with audiobooks, though, is there are several audiobook retailers that are natively DRM Free, such as downpour and libro.fm. Why buy from the DRM’d vendor, who could increase their protection at any time, when you have DRM-Free options you could be giving your money to instead?

Macha 4y ago
Is there an updated way since TunesKit got broken and you needed to keep around an old version of iTunes for Windows (which apple will eventually break)?
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  No, I just use the old version of iTunes in a virtual machine. When Apple breaks it, I'll stop buying things on iTunes. But I already have DRM-Free copies of all my current purchases. And then for new movies I use Amazon alongside a different program which works with that.

beckman466 4y ago

> it is worth commenting that there are trivial ways to remove DRM from Audible files. say i share with a loved one or close friend the de-DRM'd audiobook. now their computer becomes infected with a RAT, and 'my' file/audiobook fingerprinted with the proprietary fingerprint algorithm (to identify me as the unique purchaser, the same techniques are probably applied industry wide) is leaked online as a consequence (or their backup system is compromised or any kind of infosec violation out of the hands of my friend). next, Amazon corp identifies me. their immediate next step: lawsuit on me as an individual because 'my' file is now leaked on p2p filesharing sites and forums without me knowing about it. capitalist-enforced DRM is cancer because it's artificial scarcity imposed on a non-scarce resource (computer data/audio file). it's the result of trying to work with the limited and violent toolsets of a capitalist economy. the internet is still young and there are likely so many better options for publishing things. for example, an author i've followed for a while by the name of Charles Eisenstein has a deal with his publisher, North Atlantic Books, to initially launch his book as paperback only, and then after a six month period, his whole book is available free to read on his website (also of course there's the wonderful Library Genesis). The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible by Charles Eisenstein: https://charleseisenstein.org/books/the-more-beautiful-world-our-hearts-know-is-possible/eng/initiation https://charleseisenstein.org/books/the-more-beautiful-world... (i love the final story 'A Gathering of the Tribe') i just wanted to add my two cents after seeing encouraging discussions/debates here on this page. hybrid strategies like Eisenstein's give me signals that ultimately make me feel hopeful for a post-capitalist society which would allow any child to listen to any audiobook (and be infinitely curious in whichever direction feels most natural for them), regardless of whether their parents can afford Audible/Storytel/whatever. i focus on a child's curiosity because they suffer the most from the capitalist commoditization of culture and science and more. "How does Audio Fingerprinting work": https://emysound.com/blog/open-source/2020/06/12/how-audio-fingerprinting-works.html https://emysound.com/blog/open-source/2020/06/12/how-audio-f...

knaik94 4y ago
The audio fingerprinting is used by services like shazam to identify music, not a per user re-encode of every single song in order to find out leaks. The watermarked music files I have come across only go as far as identifying the distribution service, not an individual. From what I remember the metadata of account information is added as an editable extended tags. I actually don't know if audiobooks are even tagged by account in audible's case, it's true for iTunes. Children will have access to free audio books in the US as long as libraries are around. I can get digital audiobooks for free from my library. Libby/Overdrive and Hoopla are great, especially for children's audiobooks. I don't know if your argument against using dedrm tools even makes sense. The point is that you shouldn't share your decrypted audiobooks. It shouldn't matter what happens to your friend's computer. More importantly, an audiobook isn't important enough to steal, that a giant leap. Dedrming an audiobook is the only way I know to make sure that one day audible won't wake up and say, no we don't want you listening to that book anymore and just take it off their platform after I have paid for it. That's not a theoretical, that's already happened to some with certain kindle books.

paulryanrogers 4y ago

You can buy some of his work in podcast form already https://attacksurface.supportingcast.fm/ https://attacksurface.supportingcast.fm/ Full disclosure, powered by my employer.