5 ms·

I am sure Jack had enough opportunity & authority in his tenure to vouch for some kind of open standard so that Mastodon, Nitter etc could co-operate on this fr

I am sure Jack had enough opportunity & authority in his tenure to vouch for some kind of open standard so that Mastodon, Nitter etc could co-operate on this framework & data was transparent and accountable (instead of the API throttling on several directions). Lamenting now & shadow blaming others (as well as lending support for Musk in taking over) when he has let go of the company entirely is a strawman argument.

kranke155 4y ago
If Jack was a powerful and effective leader none of this would’ve happened. He doesn’t seem that incredible to me - just someone who made Twitter, doesn’t mean he’s a genius.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  At least being a genius in one area doesn’t imply being a genius in all.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  This is true for so many successful tech leaders but there’s a lot of reasons many parties don’t want to believe it’s more luck than talent. But you get the Notches and Zuckerbergs who strike gold once then utterly fail on every subsequent attempt at striking gold again.
  - TigeriusKirk 4y ago
    Notch is a strange case. He was on track for a possible second hit, but then the pressure of doing it as someone with a ton of attention already focused on his every move was too much for him and he bailed out. To my knowledge, he never tried again. Dorsey has struck gold twice, of course. Block (formerly Square) has done quite well. Twitter has floundered in various ways, but it's still be a huge success in other ways. I feel like there's got to be a great deal going on at Twitter that never makes the public news. Some sort of giant behind the scenes power struggle. Maybe one day we'll get the full story.
wut42 4y ago
He did made a research team at Twitter for distributed protocols, "Project Bluesky". Looks like it spinned of Twitter as a Public Benefit LLC in the early months of 2022. https://blueskyweb.xyz https://blueskyweb.xyz
- robobro 4y ago
  I can't seem to join the Matrix room linked. Can anyone?
kzrdude 4y ago
One major difference between twitter and mastodon is that mastodon doesn't show you popular things you didn't ask for. It doesn't try to show you stuff that you'll maybe think is interesting. Mastodon is just more or less showing you what you wanted. And it is not addictive this way. It can't fuel mass viral trends and conversations. It has none of the twitter dynamics. I'm not saying that's bad, but I think it means it will never be mass market popular. It's like email vs tiktok, email can't compete with tiktok's sweet features.
- noodleman 4y ago
  > It can't fuel mass viral trends and conversations. How can it? Don't you have to join individual servers? If so it is by design that you can't observe or interact with anything outside of your little bubble.
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    You can speak with anyone on any federated server, you don't have to hop servers on mastodon. The instances are the providers, but they participate in a big network (except the ones that are banned - i.e each instance can choose which edges in the graph it should use.)
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  Original twitter was also like this. As was Facebook, etc. They got their original user base without any of this. And then used that foundation as the basis for a giant advertising machine by rolling out "the algorithm." I think it's possible to get quite large by just offering a decent reinvented "BBS" service. It's just likely not possible... to make money.
  - baby 4y ago
    I don’t think the problem is money. I think it’s losing users to people who roll out the algorithm.
    - 4y ago
boringg 4y ago
True but hindsight is 20/20 and i imagine its tough to see how things would play out in the “fog of war”. Pointing the finger at others is definitely not the way to go though.
hackerlight 4y ago
I find it hard to view his statement as being delivered in good faith. Twitter pioneered some of the viral social mechanisms that are now mainstream and they continue to make decisions that clearly prioritize virality over health such as allowing quote retweets even when a user has disabled their replies to prevent harassment. Dorsey deserves just as much responsibility as Zuck for the rise of populism in the US. He gets more respect only because Facebook is used by boomers, and the cultural elite are on Twitter.
joecot 4y ago
Twitter is a publicly traded company, which means it can be sued by shareholders if it makes business decisions which will harm its value. Giving up complete control of its protocol would harm its value. Giving up its algorithm which traps its users in a whirlwind of vitriol would harm its value, because its advertising dollars would go down. Dorsey might have been at the helm, he might have a lot of clout, but when it comes to making the internet or the world better in return for lower profits, most of the time the company leadership does not actually have the control we think they do. The problem isn't that Twitter is a company, the problem is that they went public. Any promise or good will intention a corporation has ever had is null and void the day they sell the company or go public. I'm sure Dorsey will cry into piles of money over it.
- pdimitar 4y ago
  That's all true and many still don't care. He should have fought back. I'm sure he had plenty of cards up his sleeve but cowardly kept cashing in checks and did nothing.
kurupt213 4y ago
These are crocodile tears. He wipes them away with his millions of dollars

kranke155 4y ago

If Jack was a powerful and effective leader none of this would’ve happened. He doesn’t seem that incredible to me - just someone who made Twitter, doesn’t mean he’s a genius.

fnordpiglet 4y ago
At least being a genius in one area doesn’t imply being a genius in all.
Waterluvian 4y ago
This is true for so many successful tech leaders but there’s a lot of reasons many parties don’t want to believe it’s more luck than talent. But you get the Notches and Zuckerbergs who strike gold once then utterly fail on every subsequent attempt at striking gold again.
- TigeriusKirk 4y ago
  Notch is a strange case. He was on track for a possible second hit, but then the pressure of doing it as someone with a ton of attention already focused on his every move was too much for him and he bailed out. To my knowledge, he never tried again. Dorsey has struck gold twice, of course. Block (formerly Square) has done quite well. Twitter has floundered in various ways, but it's still be a huge success in other ways. I feel like there's got to be a great deal going on at Twitter that never makes the public news. Some sort of giant behind the scenes power struggle. Maybe one day we'll get the full story.

wut42 4y ago

He did made a research team at Twitter for distributed protocols, "Project Bluesky". Looks like it spinned of Twitter as a Public Benefit LLC in the early months of 2022. https://blueskyweb.xyz https://blueskyweb.xyz

robobro 4y ago
I can't seem to join the Matrix room linked. Can anyone?

kzrdude 4y ago

One major difference between twitter and mastodon is that mastodon doesn't show you popular things you didn't ask for. It doesn't try to show you stuff that you'll maybe think is interesting. Mastodon is just more or less showing you what you wanted. And it is not addictive this way. It can't fuel mass viral trends and conversations. It has none of the twitter dynamics. I'm not saying that's bad, but I think it means it will never be mass market popular. It's like email vs tiktok, email can't compete with tiktok's sweet features.

noodleman 4y ago
> It can't fuel mass viral trends and conversations. How can it? Don't you have to join individual servers? If so it is by design that you can't observe or interact with anything outside of your little bubble.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  You can speak with anyone on any federated server, you don't have to hop servers on mastodon. The instances are the providers, but they participate in a big network (except the ones that are banned - i.e each instance can choose which edges in the graph it should use.)
cmrdporcupine 4y ago
Original twitter was also like this. As was Facebook, etc. They got their original user base without any of this. And then used that foundation as the basis for a giant advertising machine by rolling out "the algorithm." I think it's possible to get quite large by just offering a decent reinvented "BBS" service. It's just likely not possible... to make money.
- baby 4y ago
  I don’t think the problem is money. I think it’s losing users to people who roll out the algorithm.
  - 4y ago

boringg 4y ago

True but hindsight is 20/20 and i imagine its tough to see how things would play out in the “fog of war”. Pointing the finger at others is definitely not the way to go though.

hackerlight 4y ago

I find it hard to view his statement as being delivered in good faith. Twitter pioneered some of the viral social mechanisms that are now mainstream and they continue to make decisions that clearly prioritize virality over health such as allowing quote retweets even when a user has disabled their replies to prevent harassment. Dorsey deserves just as much responsibility as Zuck for the rise of populism in the US. He gets more respect only because Facebook is used by boomers, and the cultural elite are on Twitter.

joecot 4y ago

Twitter is a publicly traded company, which means it can be sued by shareholders if it makes business decisions which will harm its value. Giving up complete control of its protocol would harm its value. Giving up its algorithm which traps its users in a whirlwind of vitriol would harm its value, because its advertising dollars would go down. Dorsey might have been at the helm, he might have a lot of clout, but when it comes to making the internet or the world better in return for lower profits, most of the time the company leadership does not actually have the control we think they do. The problem isn't that Twitter is a company, the problem is that they went public. Any promise or good will intention a corporation has ever had is null and void the day they sell the company or go public. I'm sure Dorsey will cry into piles of money over it.

pdimitar 4y ago
That's all true and many still don't care. He should have fought back. I'm sure he had plenty of cards up his sleeve but cowardly kept cashing in checks and did nothing.

kurupt213 4y ago

These are crocodile tears. He wipes them away with his millions of dollars