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I think the reason why he is liking Odin, as a person who used Go, is because it's arguably an offshoot language of Go. Odin (https://odin-lang.org/docs/overvi

by Tozen 4y ago

I think the reason why he is liking Odin, as a person who used Go, is because it's arguably an offshoot language of Go. Odin (https://odin-lang.org/docs/overview/ https://odin-lang.org/docs/overview/) has borrowed a lot from Go, which can be easily detected in various syntax and concepts. Another language which is in both the C and Go alternative language category, is Vlang (https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md). For anybody that has used Go, these are definitely languages to check out and would be easier to learn.

cyber_kinetist 4y ago
In terms of actual features though (ignoring trivial syntax), Odin resembles more of Jai. In fact, when I first found about it a few years earlier I though it was an open source clone of Jai. Today many features have diverged since then, and Odin is ahead by many aspects (mainly that the compiler is open source, but also that it’s already being used in production via EmberGen). I still really want the full metaprogramming capabilities that Jai has though (which is lacking in Odin currently).
- hsn915 4y ago
  > which is lacking in Odin currently gingerBill (the creator/designer of Odin) has been quite clear that Odin is done (in terms of language features) and that he does not intend to ever include support for "macros" or other advanced metaprogramming features.
- Tozen 4y ago
  I see it more as Odin has a very strong Go-like foundation, and then borrowed heavily from Jai too, in terms of syntax and various features. So that superficially, it looks like Jai. To the point, people could think it was a clone or fork. Also, Jai is a lot more Go-like than many people realize. When Jai diverges from various C/C++ concepts and traditions, it can do so in Go-like ways. > ...Odin is ahead by many aspects (mainly that the compiler is open source, but also that it’s already being used in production... Totally agree with you here. It could be argued that Jai has fumbled its advantage or at least the window of opportunity to claim its more innovative or more game program friendly than other languages. Odin has pretty much covered that gap, so that most of what people liked about Jai, is in Odin and can be used today.
  - renox 4y ago
    I wouldn't say that it has a very strong Go fondation because it seems that Odin doesn't have an equivalent to God's channels..
    - Tozen 4y ago
      Well, such things can be subjective. Yes, Odin does not do concurrency and channels. This appears to be because Odin doesn't do automatic memory management, and has more limits on the language, in terms of focus. It can be argued that Odin adapted itself to being a strong Jai alternative and appealing to gaming, versus more general purpose. My understanding is that Odin does not plan to ever attempt to put concurrency nor channels into the language. It looks like that some type of workaround, if it ever happens, will have to be implemented by a 3rd party library. It should be added, Vlang (the other Go alternative mentioned) because it was designed for various memory management options (both automatic and manual), does do concurrency and channels (https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#concurrency https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#concurren...). Vlang aims to be more general purpose versus more specific.
      - gingerBill 4y ago
        Odin has numerous concurrency primitives in the core library. And the synchronization primitives are based on a the modern construct of a `Futex`: https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/sync https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/sync https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/thread https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/thread We are planning on adding channels to the core library but we have not added them yet since there are quite a few different forms (SPSC, SPMC, MPSC, MPMC). One thing that I would like to bring up is that Odin differs from Go in that it does not have `go`routines (green threads). These require automatic memory management and a huge runtime to make them possible. And you cannot easily add them after the fact to a language either without huge issues. Channels are very basic things but the thing that makes Go's concurrency powerful are the `go`routines, not the channels.
        4y ago
avgcorrection 4y ago
You can’t conclude that a language has taken direct inspiration from another just because they look similar.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  https://odin-lang.org/docs/faq/#what-have-been-the-major-influences-in-the-languages-design https://odin-lang.org/docs/faq/#what-have-been-the-major-inf... Fortunately there's a FAQ, and from that there are two Rob Pike languages (Newsqueak and Go) as well as a pair of Wirth languages (Pascal, Oberon-2).
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    That’s fair. That’s however not what the OP claimed, which is what I was responding to.
    - Tozen 4y ago
      The creator of Odin has made it very clear he was inspired by and borrowed from both Go and Jai, which is perfectly acceptable. It's also very obvious, to any who have looked at the documentation or used the languages. The other poster already gave you a link, where Go is acknowledged. If you investigate further (Google), you will see that Jai inspired and was borrowed from too. I suppose your argument is about Odin, being compared to Jai, but its very obvious they are in near categories. Pretty much whatever a person would have used Jai for, they can use Odin. Maybe you want to also watch the YouTube link of Jai versus Odin (https://youtu.be/M763xHjsPk4 https://youtu.be/M763xHjsPk4). And, it might hurt some feelings, but I'm very understanding of people that rather use Odin than to wait around for Jai.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - eterps 4y ago
    Does anyone know what influences were taken from Oberon-2 in Odin?

by Tozen 4y ago

cyber_kinetist 4y ago

In terms of actual features though (ignoring trivial syntax), Odin resembles more of Jai. In fact, when I first found about it a few years earlier I though it was an open source clone of Jai. Today many features have diverged since then, and Odin is ahead by many aspects (mainly that the compiler is open source, but also that it’s already being used in production via EmberGen). I still really want the full metaprogramming capabilities that Jai has though (which is lacking in Odin currently).

hsn915 4y ago
> which is lacking in Odin currently gingerBill (the creator/designer of Odin) has been quite clear that Odin is done (in terms of language features) and that he does not intend to ever include support for "macros" or other advanced metaprogramming features.
Tozen 4y ago
I see it more as Odin has a very strong Go-like foundation, and then borrowed heavily from Jai too, in terms of syntax and various features. So that superficially, it looks like Jai. To the point, people could think it was a clone or fork. Also, Jai is a lot more Go-like than many people realize. When Jai diverges from various C/C++ concepts and traditions, it can do so in Go-like ways. > ...Odin is ahead by many aspects (mainly that the compiler is open source, but also that it’s already being used in production... Totally agree with you here. It could be argued that Jai has fumbled its advantage or at least the window of opportunity to claim its more innovative or more game program friendly than other languages. Odin has pretty much covered that gap, so that most of what people liked about Jai, is in Odin and can be used today.
- renox 4y ago
  I wouldn't say that it has a very strong Go fondation because it seems that Odin doesn't have an equivalent to God's channels..
  - Tozen 4y ago
    Well, such things can be subjective. Yes, Odin does not do concurrency and channels. This appears to be because Odin doesn't do automatic memory management, and has more limits on the language, in terms of focus. It can be argued that Odin adapted itself to being a strong Jai alternative and appealing to gaming, versus more general purpose. My understanding is that Odin does not plan to ever attempt to put concurrency nor channels into the language. It looks like that some type of workaround, if it ever happens, will have to be implemented by a 3rd party library. It should be added, Vlang (the other Go alternative mentioned) because it was designed for various memory management options (both automatic and manual), does do concurrency and channels (https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#concurrency https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#concurren...). Vlang aims to be more general purpose versus more specific.
    - gingerBill 4y ago
      Odin has numerous concurrency primitives in the core library. And the synchronization primitives are based on a the modern construct of a `Futex`: https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/sync https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/sync https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/thread https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/tree/master/core/thread We are planning on adding channels to the core library but we have not added them yet since there are quite a few different forms (SPSC, SPMC, MPSC, MPMC). One thing that I would like to bring up is that Odin differs from Go in that it does not have `go`routines (green threads). These require automatic memory management and a huge runtime to make them possible. And you cannot easily add them after the fact to a language either without huge issues. Channels are very basic things but the thing that makes Go's concurrency powerful are the `go`routines, not the channels.
      - 4y ago

avgcorrection 4y ago

You can’t conclude that a language has taken direct inspiration from another just because they look similar.

Jtsummers 4y ago
https://odin-lang.org/docs/faq/#what-have-been-the-major-influences-in-the-languages-design https://odin-lang.org/docs/faq/#what-have-been-the-major-inf... Fortunately there's a FAQ, and from that there are two Rob Pike languages (Newsqueak and Go) as well as a pair of Wirth languages (Pascal, Oberon-2).
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  That’s fair. That’s however not what the OP claimed, which is what I was responding to.
  - Tozen 4y ago
    The creator of Odin has made it very clear he was inspired by and borrowed from both Go and Jai, which is perfectly acceptable. It's also very obvious, to any who have looked at the documentation or used the languages. The other poster already gave you a link, where Go is acknowledged. If you investigate further (Google), you will see that Jai inspired and was borrowed from too. I suppose your argument is about Odin, being compared to Jai, but its very obvious they are in near categories. Pretty much whatever a person would have used Jai for, they can use Odin. Maybe you want to also watch the YouTube link of Jai versus Odin (https://youtu.be/M763xHjsPk4 https://youtu.be/M763xHjsPk4). And, it might hurt some feelings, but I'm very understanding of people that rather use Odin than to wait around for Jai.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- eterps 4y ago
  Does anyone know what influences were taken from Oberon-2 in Odin?