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The biggest error is to assume people want to pay with cryptocurrency. They just want to speculate on it; first buy, then sell. Nobody actually pays with crypt

The biggest error is to assume people want to pay with cryptocurrency. They just want to speculate on it; first buy, then sell. Nobody actually pays with cryptocurrency. edit: ahh it’s in the actual article. Never mind.

herbst 4y ago
To be fair that assumption is wrong if you look at more weird specific niches. Crypto payments definitely have a place, also outside of drug markets.
- knorker 4y ago
  Like what?
  - herbst 4y ago
    Porn, SMM, basically any international digital services on the PayPal blacklist.
    - knorker 4y ago
      Porn: I'm not up to speed on the cryptocurrency use in porn. Shouldn't this run into consumer protection issues? That is: while it and debit cards don't guarantee as simple a chargeback as a credit card, there are still laws here. So let's say pornhub takes bitcoin (can't check, as I'm in a public place). It still needs a refunds and frauds department for those payments, no? And pornhub does take credit cards. Yes, the fees are higher. But largely because the chargebacks are more common (spouse finds out, buyer feigns ignorance). What's SSM in this context?
      - herbst 4y ago
        Smm = Social media marketing, buying likes and that stuff. It's a huge market actually. Porn sites also heavily set on crypto to pay their creators, paying out is even more an issue than charging in such markets. I don't understand where the issue with refunding crypto should be. It's also way cheaper than what stripe, PayPal or co charges if users issue refunds. Personally I only save money by using crypto, I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year. For me as merchants it's a non brainer. I also use crypto as a customer but I usually trust these companies before I send money. The swiss Amazon is accepting crypto for example, as customer I trust them and all customer protections laws apply as well.
        knorker 4y ago
        > I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year Honest question: Have you run that past a lawyer? Chargebacks are partially based in law, so while you could be saving money now, it could be by building up more and more legal liability and risk. But maybe you'll be fine, because you refund any and all refund requests.
TekMol 4y ago
I would love to pay with crypto. Every time I type my credit card number into some web form I think "Damn, I hope the number will not end up in some shady hands causing me trouble". I had my credit card disabled once because someone started using it to buy stuff with it around the world. What a freaking hassle. Telephone calls, letters, several days without a CC, had to change the number everywhere .. annoying. Paying a lightning invoice does not bear such risks.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  You know that lots of card providers can generate virtual cards for free on demand these days right? Another set of details that works the same as your original card but can be used for, say, just one site and cancelled at any time if it gets misused. If that's your only gripe than that's probably the easier way than switching to an entirely separate financial system.
  - zeroclip 4y ago
    It is not realistic to generate a virtual card for each purchase. It creates a documentation headache as well, such as handling returns and payment proofs.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - verdverm 4y ago
      I expect credit cards to become more like private keys in time, managed by the company, and transactions will have unique tokens so that your real number is never passed to the vendor. Blockchain like ideas will be implemented in "TradFi" without the overhead of blockchain.
- desindol 4y ago
  You are saying that you rather would have your crypto wallet stolen instead of your credit card?
0x64 4y ago
How come? There's no speculation in stablecoins, USD-following or not. Especially if you transact on a layer-2 solution, it's quite convenient.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  That couldn't be further than the truth. It's just a more convenient way of trading forex.

herbst 4y ago

To be fair that assumption is wrong if you look at more weird specific niches. Crypto payments definitely have a place, also outside of drug markets.

knorker 4y ago
Like what?
- herbst 4y ago
  Porn, SMM, basically any international digital services on the PayPal blacklist.
  - knorker 4y ago
    Porn: I'm not up to speed on the cryptocurrency use in porn. Shouldn't this run into consumer protection issues? That is: while it and debit cards don't guarantee as simple a chargeback as a credit card, there are still laws here. So let's say pornhub takes bitcoin (can't check, as I'm in a public place). It still needs a refunds and frauds department for those payments, no? And pornhub does take credit cards. Yes, the fees are higher. But largely because the chargebacks are more common (spouse finds out, buyer feigns ignorance). What's SSM in this context?
    - herbst 4y ago
      Smm = Social media marketing, buying likes and that stuff. It's a huge market actually. Porn sites also heavily set on crypto to pay their creators, paying out is even more an issue than charging in such markets. I don't understand where the issue with refunding crypto should be. It's also way cheaper than what stripe, PayPal or co charges if users issue refunds. Personally I only save money by using crypto, I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year. For me as merchants it's a non brainer. I also use crypto as a customer but I usually trust these companies before I send money. The swiss Amazon is accepting crypto for example, as customer I trust them and all customer protections laws apply as well.
      - knorker 4y ago
        > I save thousands of dollars in transaction and chargeback fees every year Honest question: Have you run that past a lawyer? Chargebacks are partially based in law, so while you could be saving money now, it could be by building up more and more legal liability and risk. But maybe you'll be fine, because you refund any and all refund requests.

TekMol 4y ago

I would love to pay with crypto. Every time I type my credit card number into some web form I think "Damn, I hope the number will not end up in some shady hands causing me trouble". I had my credit card disabled once because someone started using it to buy stuff with it around the world. What a freaking hassle. Telephone calls, letters, several days without a CC, had to change the number everywhere .. annoying. Paying a lightning invoice does not bear such risks.

moffkalast 4y ago
You know that lots of card providers can generate virtual cards for free on demand these days right? Another set of details that works the same as your original card but can be used for, say, just one site and cancelled at any time if it gets misused. If that's your only gripe than that's probably the easier way than switching to an entirely separate financial system.
- zeroclip 4y ago
  It is not realistic to generate a virtual card for each purchase. It creates a documentation headache as well, such as handling returns and payment proofs.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - verdverm 4y ago
    I expect credit cards to become more like private keys in time, managed by the company, and transactions will have unique tokens so that your real number is never passed to the vendor. Blockchain like ideas will be implemented in "TradFi" without the overhead of blockchain.
desindol 4y ago
You are saying that you rather would have your crypto wallet stolen instead of your credit card?

0x64 4y ago

How come? There's no speculation in stablecoins, USD-following or not. Especially if you transact on a layer-2 solution, it's quite convenient.

moffkalast 4y ago
That couldn't be further than the truth. It's just a more convenient way of trading forex.