4 ms·

For context: I am not a native English speaker. My command of the English language is more than adequate for writing academic texts in English (ie, research).

by Beldin 4y ago

For context: I am not a native English speaker. My command of the English language is more than adequate for writing academic texts in English (ie, research). I am aware of "gimp" as a derogatory term, but it pops up so infrequently, its primary connotation for me has become this piece of software. I imagine plenty of other non-native speakers would similarly only have a loose connotation to the meaning as an insult. In other words, while names may sometimes be important, I think this case is not an instance of that for the majority of people on the planet.

bildung 4y ago
> I am aware of "gimp" as a derogatory term, but it pops up so infrequently, its primary connotation for me has become this piece of software. This is also the way our language perception generally works: The word is just the signifier, a variable. The meaning, the significate, is not inherent in the word itself. If enough people say "gimp" and mean the software, that becomes the default inference.
- trombone5000 4y ago
  You'd never get to the end state you describe if people are uncomfortable recommending the software because of the name. Word-of-mouth fails when the literal word is something you won't say. They should change the name; it's difficult to understand why the maintainers are so attached to something so self-defeating.
  - Beldin 4y ago
    That was my point: while you may have some/strong inhibitions due to this name, I don't. To me, "git" is far worse - probably because of gaps in my English, but still. You don't get why they don't change the name; I would rather folks spend effort on improving Gimp than changing its name. (Same for git btw.) I think name changes are like bug fixes: the later in the life cycle you go for it, the more expensive. Whether that is worth the cost... in the case of Gimp and git: for you maybe yes, for me decidedly no. Doesn't mean either of us is more right than the other, but does say something about how we feel about using and talking about these pieces of software.
  - inDigiNeous 4y ago
    This guy (or girl, who am I to say) gets it.
Matl 4y ago
As a non-native English speaker myself, I've known about GIMP the software years before I was familiar with "gimp" as an insult. It's kind of like Git, an odd British insult that we in the free software community know as the leading version control system. Proprietary software is often stupidly named too, yet we take it seriously. I feel like for some people it's not the name, but the lack of associated cost that moves GIMP to the 'hobby utility' category for them. (And yes, I'm aware Linus named Git as an insult on purpose and that he wanted to call Linux something weird too, like Freax - the questions is, why does it matter?)
- checkyoursudo 4y ago
  I think why it matters to some people, though surely not everyone, is that words and names can evoke real responses in those people. And I mean real, like memories, feelings, associations, et cetera. Sometimes the real response is strong, even psychosomatic. I don't think these people are faking it. Words have always seemed to have power. When my wife and I were considering names for our child, there was one name in particular where she said that she could never name her child that. She had hated (HATED, apparently) a girl with the same name in primary school. The look on her face. The real emotions in her eyes. That name was definitely out. I have seen people get in physical fights purely over a few words and name-calling. I personally do not feel this way about words. I think we should not let words have such power over us. But for some people, words do matter that much. As such, we have a choice when naming something. We can either ignore this power of words and risk having the name itself hold back adoption of the [product, service, whatever], or we can be aware of this power and conscious and conscientious in choosing how to name the thing.
  - Matl 4y ago
    I appreciate this perspective and generally agree with it, but I am also of the opinion that society evolves and so what is very inconsiderate today wasn't socially viewed as such back then. Going forward, I probably wouldn't name it GIMP, but this is decades old software. There are people who assume malice on the part of the developers refusing to change a name that has over 20 years of 'name recognition' behind it, for better or worse. It's those people that, despite understanding their concerns to a large degree, actually make it less likely that naming will be considerate in the future. It also doesn't help that the suggested replacement names are not much better, GIMP was forked as Glimpse because of the name. Glimpse has all sorts of potentially creepy/negative behaviors associated with it as well if one goes into it trying to analyze the name as flawed.
Joeboy 4y ago
I think the reason people have more of a problem with GIMP is that it's a sex thing, not that it's an insult. Whereas "git" doesn't really mean anything specific as far as I know. Edit: Apparently gimp is also an insult directed to disabled people (I just learned).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  This is the classic stupid git argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k https://montycasinos.com/montypython/scripts/argument.php.html https://montycasinos.com/montypython/scripts/argument.php.ht... >A: (under his breath) stupid git.
  - sbuk 4y ago
    From https://github.com/git/git/blob/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290/README https://github.com/git/git/blob/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca... "git" can mean anything, depending on your mood. - random three-letter combination that is pronounceable, and not actually used by any common UNIX command. The fact that it is a mispronounciation of "get" may or may not be relevant. - stupid. contemptible and despicable. simple. Take your pick from the dictionary of slang. - "global information tracker": you're in a good mood, and it actually works for you. Angels sing, and a light suddenly fills the room. - "goddamn idiotic truckload of sh*t": when it breaks

by Beldin 4y ago

bildung 4y ago

> I am aware of "gimp" as a derogatory term, but it pops up so infrequently, its primary connotation for me has become this piece of software. This is also the way our language perception generally works: The word is just the signifier, a variable. The meaning, the significate, is not inherent in the word itself. If enough people say "gimp" and mean the software, that becomes the default inference.

trombone5000 4y ago
You'd never get to the end state you describe if people are uncomfortable recommending the software because of the name. Word-of-mouth fails when the literal word is something you won't say. They should change the name; it's difficult to understand why the maintainers are so attached to something so self-defeating.
- Beldin 4y ago
  That was my point: while you may have some/strong inhibitions due to this name, I don't. To me, "git" is far worse - probably because of gaps in my English, but still. You don't get why they don't change the name; I would rather folks spend effort on improving Gimp than changing its name. (Same for git btw.) I think name changes are like bug fixes: the later in the life cycle you go for it, the more expensive. Whether that is worth the cost... in the case of Gimp and git: for you maybe yes, for me decidedly no. Doesn't mean either of us is more right than the other, but does say something about how we feel about using and talking about these pieces of software.
- inDigiNeous 4y ago
  This guy (or girl, who am I to say) gets it.

Matl 4y ago

As a non-native English speaker myself, I've known about GIMP the software years before I was familiar with "gimp" as an insult. It's kind of like Git, an odd British insult that we in the free software community know as the leading version control system. Proprietary software is often stupidly named too, yet we take it seriously. I feel like for some people it's not the name, but the lack of associated cost that moves GIMP to the 'hobby utility' category for them. (And yes, I'm aware Linus named Git as an insult on purpose and that he wanted to call Linux something weird too, like Freax - the questions is, why does it matter?)

checkyoursudo 4y ago
I think why it matters to some people, though surely not everyone, is that words and names can evoke real responses in those people. And I mean real, like memories, feelings, associations, et cetera. Sometimes the real response is strong, even psychosomatic. I don't think these people are faking it. Words have always seemed to have power. When my wife and I were considering names for our child, there was one name in particular where she said that she could never name her child that. She had hated (HATED, apparently) a girl with the same name in primary school. The look on her face. The real emotions in her eyes. That name was definitely out. I have seen people get in physical fights purely over a few words and name-calling. I personally do not feel this way about words. I think we should not let words have such power over us. But for some people, words do matter that much. As such, we have a choice when naming something. We can either ignore this power of words and risk having the name itself hold back adoption of the [product, service, whatever], or we can be aware of this power and conscious and conscientious in choosing how to name the thing.
- Matl 4y ago
  I appreciate this perspective and generally agree with it, but I am also of the opinion that society evolves and so what is very inconsiderate today wasn't socially viewed as such back then. Going forward, I probably wouldn't name it GIMP, but this is decades old software. There are people who assume malice on the part of the developers refusing to change a name that has over 20 years of 'name recognition' behind it, for better or worse. It's those people that, despite understanding their concerns to a large degree, actually make it less likely that naming will be considerate in the future. It also doesn't help that the suggested replacement names are not much better, GIMP was forked as Glimpse because of the name. Glimpse has all sorts of potentially creepy/negative behaviors associated with it as well if one goes into it trying to analyze the name as flawed.

Joeboy 4y ago

I think the reason people have more of a problem with GIMP is that it's a sex thing, not that it's an insult. Whereas "git" doesn't really mean anything specific as far as I know. Edit: Apparently gimp is also an insult directed to disabled people (I just learned).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
DonHopkins 4y ago
This is the classic stupid git argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k https://montycasinos.com/montypython/scripts/argument.php.html https://montycasinos.com/montypython/scripts/argument.php.ht... >A: (under his breath) stupid git.
- sbuk 4y ago
  From https://github.com/git/git/blob/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290/README https://github.com/git/git/blob/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca... "git" can mean anything, depending on your mood. - random three-letter combination that is pronounceable, and not actually used by any common UNIX command. The fact that it is a mispronounciation of "get" may or may not be relevant. - stupid. contemptible and despicable. simple. Take your pick from the dictionary of slang. - "global information tracker": you're in a good mood, and it actually works for you. Angels sing, and a light suddenly fills the room. - "goddamn idiotic truckload of sh*t": when it breaks