4 ms·

Where do you use the bathroom? I do it at home, at work or in a business I am patronizing. All three things a destitute street person does not generally have ac

Where do you use the bathroom? I do it at home, at work or in a business I am patronizing. All three things a destitute street person does not generally have access to.

imgabe 4y ago
Train/Bus stations, shopping malls, libraries, homeless shelters, fast food restaurants, gas stations, hotel lobbies, churches The destitute do also patronize businesses as well from time to time. You do nobody any favors by infantilizing them. Grown adults can find a place to relieve themselves without fouling the public space. If not, perhaps they need to be placed in a facility where they can receive the care and supervision they need. I'm all for the government providing and maintaining public restrooms as well (or subsidizing businesses that do, per my other comment), but that needs to be coupled with enforcement against people who would abuse them, as well as a general societal will to not let people rot in the street in the name of respecting their life choices.
- DubiousPusher 4y ago
  I'm not sure what it's like where you live but where I live it's like this. Train/Bus stations don't have bathrooms. Homeless shelters and the churches which do provide services make you leave during the day and do not let people back in under any circumstances until around 5 PM. Fast food restaurants, gas stations and hotel lobbies all lock their bathrooms and allow access to patrons only. Which leaves shopping malls and libraries. In a huge city, that's a pretty low toilet density. > but that needs to be coupled with enforcement against people who would abuse them, I have no problem with this. Vandalizing public utilities should be a crime which is enforced. Having to answer the call of nature should not be.
  - imgabe 4y ago
    Train stations / bus terminals in major cities absolutely do have bathrooms. Union Station in DC, Grand Central / Penn Station in New York, similar stations in other cities, all have bathrooms. They’re usually open 24/7 too. Even places with locks on the bathrooms will usually let people use them if they ask. It is not unreasonable to imagine someone, no matter how destitute, getting something off the dollar menu at McDonald’s. Many do. Many certainly have no trouble finding enough money for drugs or alcohol so it’s not unreasonable to expect they can get a fast food meal and use the bathroom. In the absolute worst case scenario, find a secluded place in a park and dig a hole, or get a plastic bag and throw it away. There’s no excuse for leaving feces on the sidewalk. Sorry, but “don’t shit in the common area” has been table stakes for participating in human society since the beginning of time. Even in a hunter gatherer society someone taking a dump next to the campfire would be rightly ostracized.
    - DubiousPusher 4y ago
      > similar stations in other cities, all have bathrooms. They’re usually open 24/7 too. Less than you think. I ride the bus all around the Seattle area and I can't think of a bus station here that has a bathroom. > Even places with locks on the bathrooms will usually let people use them if they ask. Not here. > It is not unreasonable to imagine someone, no matter how destitute, getting something off the dollar menu at McDonald’s. You're talking about a couple bucks a day for people subsisting on $200 of snap benefits a month. > any certainly have no trouble finding enough money for drugs or alcohol It's almost as if people suffering from substance abuse disorder make poor financial choices > In the absolute worst case scenario, find a secluded place in a park and dig a hole, or get a plastic bag and throw it away. Just to be clear, that is still illegal. > There’s no excuse for leaving feces on the sidewalk. I agree. People shitting right on the sidewalk are probably in need of medical attention. > Sorry, but “don’t shit in the common area” has been table stakes for participating in human society since the beginning of time. You know that people used to empty their chamber pots on the street right? You know India is undergoing a campaign right now to decrease ubiquitous public defecation and that involves building a million plus toilets? > Even in a hunter gatherer society someone taking a dump next to the campfire would be rightly ostracized. Probably. I don't think they'd lock you in a cage for it though.
      - imgabe 4y ago
        What it comes down to is, if you want to have a society where there’s not people living in tents on every corner or shitting outdoors, you have to make and enforce a rule that people aren’t allowed to do that. Then when you find someone breaking that law, stop them. If they’re addicted to drugs, send them to rehab, whether they want to go or not. If they’re mentally ill, send them to an institution. If they’ve just decided they’d rather live that way, then jail, because it’s simply not allowed. Yet when we try to make and enforce laws like that, people get told they’re “criminalizing poverty” and we end up with the situation we have now. Yes, you can reasonably expect adults to function and take care of themselves, including finding shelter, food and appropriate restroom facilities, without a government agent holding their hand every step of the way. Indeed, the vast majority of people do and we depend on it.

Where do you use the bathroom? I do it at home, at work or in a business I am patronizing. All three things a destitute street person does not generally have access to.

imgabe 4y ago

Train/Bus stations, shopping malls, libraries, homeless shelters, fast food restaurants, gas stations, hotel lobbies, churches The destitute do also patronize businesses as well from time to time. You do nobody any favors by infantilizing them. Grown adults can find a place to relieve themselves without fouling the public space. If not, perhaps they need to be placed in a facility where they can receive the care and supervision they need. I'm all for the government providing and maintaining public restrooms as well (or subsidizing businesses that do, per my other comment), but that needs to be coupled with enforcement against people who would abuse them, as well as a general societal will to not let people rot in the street in the name of respecting their life choices.

DubiousPusher 4y ago
I'm not sure what it's like where you live but where I live it's like this. Train/Bus stations don't have bathrooms. Homeless shelters and the churches which do provide services make you leave during the day and do not let people back in under any circumstances until around 5 PM. Fast food restaurants, gas stations and hotel lobbies all lock their bathrooms and allow access to patrons only. Which leaves shopping malls and libraries. In a huge city, that's a pretty low toilet density. > but that needs to be coupled with enforcement against people who would abuse them, I have no problem with this. Vandalizing public utilities should be a crime which is enforced. Having to answer the call of nature should not be.
- imgabe 4y ago
  Train stations / bus terminals in major cities absolutely do have bathrooms. Union Station in DC, Grand Central / Penn Station in New York, similar stations in other cities, all have bathrooms. They’re usually open 24/7 too. Even places with locks on the bathrooms will usually let people use them if they ask. It is not unreasonable to imagine someone, no matter how destitute, getting something off the dollar menu at McDonald’s. Many do. Many certainly have no trouble finding enough money for drugs or alcohol so it’s not unreasonable to expect they can get a fast food meal and use the bathroom. In the absolute worst case scenario, find a secluded place in a park and dig a hole, or get a plastic bag and throw it away. There’s no excuse for leaving feces on the sidewalk. Sorry, but “don’t shit in the common area” has been table stakes for participating in human society since the beginning of time. Even in a hunter gatherer society someone taking a dump next to the campfire would be rightly ostracized.
  - DubiousPusher 4y ago
    > similar stations in other cities, all have bathrooms. They’re usually open 24/7 too. Less than you think. I ride the bus all around the Seattle area and I can't think of a bus station here that has a bathroom. > Even places with locks on the bathrooms will usually let people use them if they ask. Not here. > It is not unreasonable to imagine someone, no matter how destitute, getting something off the dollar menu at McDonald’s. You're talking about a couple bucks a day for people subsisting on $200 of snap benefits a month. > any certainly have no trouble finding enough money for drugs or alcohol It's almost as if people suffering from substance abuse disorder make poor financial choices > In the absolute worst case scenario, find a secluded place in a park and dig a hole, or get a plastic bag and throw it away. Just to be clear, that is still illegal. > There’s no excuse for leaving feces on the sidewalk. I agree. People shitting right on the sidewalk are probably in need of medical attention. > Sorry, but “don’t shit in the common area” has been table stakes for participating in human society since the beginning of time. You know that people used to empty their chamber pots on the street right? You know India is undergoing a campaign right now to decrease ubiquitous public defecation and that involves building a million plus toilets? > Even in a hunter gatherer society someone taking a dump next to the campfire would be rightly ostracized. Probably. I don't think they'd lock you in a cage for it though.
    - imgabe 4y ago
      What it comes down to is, if you want to have a society where there’s not people living in tents on every corner or shitting outdoors, you have to make and enforce a rule that people aren’t allowed to do that. Then when you find someone breaking that law, stop them. If they’re addicted to drugs, send them to rehab, whether they want to go or not. If they’re mentally ill, send them to an institution. If they’ve just decided they’d rather live that way, then jail, because it’s simply not allowed. Yet when we try to make and enforce laws like that, people get told they’re “criminalizing poverty” and we end up with the situation we have now. Yes, you can reasonably expect adults to function and take care of themselves, including finding shelter, food and appropriate restroom facilities, without a government agent holding their hand every step of the way. Indeed, the vast majority of people do and we depend on it.