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While I agree that is a fairly comical quote, I also think it’s an oversimplification to say that whales are “an endangered species”. There are many different s

While I agree that is a fairly comical quote, I also think it’s an oversimplification to say that whales are “an endangered species”. There are many different species of whale, some of which are endangered and some are not. The humpback whale, for example, is no longer listed as endangered as of 2022.

pvaldes 4y ago
Less than 500 North Pacific right whales remain in the planet, only 30 of them visit Alaska, and the rest live mostly around the Japanese sea. Spreading the idea that endangered animals eat "too much" is evil. Rotten to the core.
- freetime2 4y ago
  I don’t think that’s relevant to the discussion here, because Japan does not hunt Right whales. Japan’s fishing ministry only allows hunting of Minke, Bryde’s, and Sei whales [1] - and in limited numbers which would not endanger the overall population of those species. [1] https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/stop-whaling/whaling-in-japan/ https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/stop-whaling/whaling-in-ja...
zzzeek 4y ago
> The humpback whale, for example, is no longer listed as endangered as of 2022. I see, so , humpback whale population has just crossed the line of no longer being an endangered species, *this year*. So did they overnight become an environmental pest that is decimating the fish population? I am going to guess you would say no. So I don't think your comment is relevant to the actual point being made. If OTOH you are just applying some factual editing so that my amazing comment can be printed in a newspaper, let's clean up that language sure!
- freetime2 4y ago
  I was just pointing out what I think is a major flaw in your logic. I think it’s entirely possible to have some stocks of whale which are endangered, and other stocks of whale that are not endangered and are eating large amounts of fish and krill. Do I think that whales are decimating fish populations? Probably not, but I would need to see some data to say with any degree of certainty. And again, this is something you would need to look at in terms of local whale stocks and fisheries vs. just looking at all whales as a whole. > So I don't think your comment is relevant to the actual point being made. If OTOH you are just applying some factual editing so that my amazing comment can be printed in a newspaper, let's clean up that language sure! I think it is relevant to point out flawed logic or overly simplistic thinking in pretty much any discussion - regardless of whether or not it will be printed in a newspaper.
  - zzzeek 4y ago
    > I was just pointing out what I think is a major flaw in your logic. I think it’s entirely possible to have some stocks of whale which are endangered, and other stocks of whale that are not endangered and are eating large amounts of fish and krill. OK see this is where you are wasting everyone's time. Japanese whaling fleets are targeting those exact whale populations that *are* endangered. Most of the international community opposes their practices and there are many international protections on various whale species that the Japanese whalers simply ignore. pointing out "flaws" in what random people are saying about some random NYT article that mentions it is irrelevant to understanding what is actually going in the world, things that are true and actually happening that you can confirm (or whatever you feel like) on your own, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan. > Do I think that whales are decimating fish populations? Probably not, but I would need to see some data to say with any degree of certainty. And again, this is something you would need to look at in terms of local whale stocks and fisheries vs. just looking at all whales as a whole. your time then would be better spent *researching that* instead of wasting it nitpicking people. If I make a comment here, my audience are those people interested in making good faith interpretations. Sitting back and saying "hmmm, what if whales DO actually eat too much fish, and maybe the Japanese are only hunting whales that are not endangered? Here's one that's stopped being endangered for 8 months! ah HA! a flaw!" that's what we call a "bad faith" interpretation. it's non-constructive and reveals you aren't really very curious about the actual issue. I am not very interested in word games myself. > I think it is relevant to point out flawed logic or overly simplistic thinking in pretty much any discussion - regardless of whether or not it will be printed in a newspaper. The argument made by Japanese whalers in that quote is clearly idiotic, which you can confirm through a little bit of googling, where you would then know more about the subject. Correcting people who are failing to convince you of something due to small inaccuracies in their language OTOH fails to teach you anything new at all. Put another way. an actual rebuttal to my comment would be, "I'm a marine biologist, and here are whale species X, Y and Z that are not endangered at all, to which the ecosystem is now being improved thanks to the Japanese whaling industry wiping out a third of them, and here's why the vast majority of the international oceanic community is wrong on this issue in their opposition to Japan's killing fleets". That would be some argument for sure, since it doesnt exist, but if one did, would at least be an informed comment that's valuable to the discussion.

pvaldes 4y ago

Less than 500 North Pacific right whales remain in the planet, only 30 of them visit Alaska, and the rest live mostly around the Japanese sea. Spreading the idea that endangered animals eat "too much" is evil. Rotten to the core.

freetime2 4y ago
I don’t think that’s relevant to the discussion here, because Japan does not hunt Right whales. Japan’s fishing ministry only allows hunting of Minke, Bryde’s, and Sei whales [1] - and in limited numbers which would not endanger the overall population of those species. [1] https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/stop-whaling/whaling-in-japan/ https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/stop-whaling/whaling-in-ja...

zzzeek 4y ago

> The humpback whale, for example, is no longer listed as endangered as of 2022. I see, so , humpback whale population has just crossed the line of no longer being an endangered species, *this year*. So did they overnight become an environmental pest that is decimating the fish population? I am going to guess you would say no. So I don't think your comment is relevant to the actual point being made. If OTOH you are just applying some factual editing so that my amazing comment can be printed in a newspaper, let's clean up that language sure!

freetime2 4y ago
I was just pointing out what I think is a major flaw in your logic. I think it’s entirely possible to have some stocks of whale which are endangered, and other stocks of whale that are not endangered and are eating large amounts of fish and krill. Do I think that whales are decimating fish populations? Probably not, but I would need to see some data to say with any degree of certainty. And again, this is something you would need to look at in terms of local whale stocks and fisheries vs. just looking at all whales as a whole. > So I don't think your comment is relevant to the actual point being made. If OTOH you are just applying some factual editing so that my amazing comment can be printed in a newspaper, let's clean up that language sure! I think it is relevant to point out flawed logic or overly simplistic thinking in pretty much any discussion - regardless of whether or not it will be printed in a newspaper.
- zzzeek 4y ago
  > I was just pointing out what I think is a major flaw in your logic. I think it’s entirely possible to have some stocks of whale which are endangered, and other stocks of whale that are not endangered and are eating large amounts of fish and krill. OK see this is where you are wasting everyone's time. Japanese whaling fleets are targeting those exact whale populations that *are* endangered. Most of the international community opposes their practices and there are many international protections on various whale species that the Japanese whalers simply ignore. pointing out "flaws" in what random people are saying about some random NYT article that mentions it is irrelevant to understanding what is actually going in the world, things that are true and actually happening that you can confirm (or whatever you feel like) on your own, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan. > Do I think that whales are decimating fish populations? Probably not, but I would need to see some data to say with any degree of certainty. And again, this is something you would need to look at in terms of local whale stocks and fisheries vs. just looking at all whales as a whole. your time then would be better spent *researching that* instead of wasting it nitpicking people. If I make a comment here, my audience are those people interested in making good faith interpretations. Sitting back and saying "hmmm, what if whales DO actually eat too much fish, and maybe the Japanese are only hunting whales that are not endangered? Here's one that's stopped being endangered for 8 months! ah HA! a flaw!" that's what we call a "bad faith" interpretation. it's non-constructive and reveals you aren't really very curious about the actual issue. I am not very interested in word games myself. > I think it is relevant to point out flawed logic or overly simplistic thinking in pretty much any discussion - regardless of whether or not it will be printed in a newspaper. The argument made by Japanese whalers in that quote is clearly idiotic, which you can confirm through a little bit of googling, where you would then know more about the subject. Correcting people who are failing to convince you of something due to small inaccuracies in their language OTOH fails to teach you anything new at all. Put another way. an actual rebuttal to my comment would be, "I'm a marine biologist, and here are whale species X, Y and Z that are not endangered at all, to which the ecosystem is now being improved thanks to the Japanese whaling industry wiping out a third of them, and here's why the vast majority of the international oceanic community is wrong on this issue in their opposition to Japan's killing fleets". That would be some argument for sure, since it doesnt exist, but if one did, would at least be an informed comment that's valuable to the discussion.