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>"but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary." I understand the sentiment but I ultimately find such a stance unhelpful and counterproducti

>"but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary." I understand the sentiment but I ultimately find such a stance unhelpful and counterproductive because it is essentially saying the problems we face would go away if we only just created a utopia. Like, what's stopping us? Trying to create better public restrooms with a new system seems far more achievable than implementing a new socioeconomic system where no one feels like trashing public bathrooms and common areas.

deleted 4y ago
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ZeroGravitas 4y ago
It doesn't need to be a utopia. Apartheid regimes or extreme poverty lead to gated compounds for the rich with depressing predictability. Toilets that exclude the poor are great for ensuring the rich have access to nice private toilets. Doesn't help those who can't afford the subscription fee.
- ahtihn 4y ago
  > Toilets that exclude the poor are great for ensuring the rich have access to nice private toilets I don't think leaving toilets in a usable state after using them has anything to do with being rich or poor. It's not something that requires money.
- Gareth321 4y ago
  > Apartheid regimes or extreme poverty The problem is that people are using these labels for countries like America, which clearly do not have Apartheid or extreme poverty. When one is so extreme in their beliefs and hyperbole, they are effectively asking for total social restructure. Ignoring the fact that such unhinged people should be nowhere near any such responsibility, the user above is correct: this will never happen. While these extremists wait for the glorious revolution, people in need today are missing out on good but not perfect solutions.
- snapplebobapple 4y ago
  You need a different metric for your thought processes than utopia/not utopia. Ask yourself how close to utopia you have to get for your idea to work instead. The answer in this case is pretty damn close to utopia because such a small percentage of people are needed to ruin it for everyone and it is expensive to run the cleaning regime necessary to cancel that out everywhere.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

It doesn't need to be a utopia. Apartheid regimes or extreme poverty lead to gated compounds for the rich with depressing predictability. Toilets that exclude the poor are great for ensuring the rich have access to nice private toilets. Doesn't help those who can't afford the subscription fee.

ahtihn 4y ago
> Toilets that exclude the poor are great for ensuring the rich have access to nice private toilets I don't think leaving toilets in a usable state after using them has anything to do with being rich or poor. It's not something that requires money.
Gareth321 4y ago
> Apartheid regimes or extreme poverty The problem is that people are using these labels for countries like America, which clearly do not have Apartheid or extreme poverty. When one is so extreme in their beliefs and hyperbole, they are effectively asking for total social restructure. Ignoring the fact that such unhinged people should be nowhere near any such responsibility, the user above is correct: this will never happen. While these extremists wait for the glorious revolution, people in need today are missing out on good but not perfect solutions.
snapplebobapple 4y ago
You need a different metric for your thought processes than utopia/not utopia. Ask yourself how close to utopia you have to get for your idea to work instead. The answer in this case is pretty damn close to utopia because such a small percentage of people are needed to ruin it for everyone and it is expensive to run the cleaning regime necessary to cancel that out everywhere.