9 ms·

But do high productivity / high demand employees earn outsized compensation? Software engineers at Uber, for example, earn probably 10x what drivers make. If yo

But do high productivity / high demand employees earn outsized compensation? Software engineers at Uber, for example, earn probably 10x what drivers make. If you look at some of the recent ridesharing coop attempts in the US, they advertise wages of 70-80k for devs, which is just not going to work in a competitive market.

sudosysgen 4y ago
That's 80k + a share, which may have a lot of value.
- jonas21 4y ago
  Though you have to buy that share.
  - msk-lywenn 4y ago
    It’s usually progressively deduced from your salary, you don’t need to buy it upfront
    - jonas21 4y ago
      At least in this case, it sounds like you buy it upfront. > Mondragon’s co-ops share the same detailed information with worker-owners, who buy into their co-ops by making one-time payments of roughly sixteen thousand euros in most co-ops.
      - sangnoir 4y ago
        I'm sure Mondragon's financing coöp will happily assist with funding a loan, underwritten by an insurance coöp and paid through the bank coöp. It's turtles^w coöps all the way down.
jack_pp 4y ago
Won't it work though? The market isn't full of rational salary optimizing actors, there are some (probably a small percentage) that care more about their work env and culture than salary. This might be either because they already feel they have enough money or simply hate the normal corporate culture.
- nine_k 4y ago
  Ideally the pay cut would be smaller than he expense of buying antidepressants and regular therapist visits.
  - jack_pp 4y ago
    I don't know about you but I'd rather not spend years of my life sedated on drugs just for money. There are places to live outside the states that don't require you to make 100k per year to have a very good life.
    - nine_k 4y ago
      Exactly my point. A soul-crushing job may be not worth it just from the financial perspective.
kqr 4y ago
Generally you won't find investors pouring millions into co-op because investors do this in expectation of ownership and control -- the opposite of what they get in a co-op. So it's harder for a co-op to raise the ridiculous amounts of money they need to pay outsized compensation. Instead, part of the compensation package is to not be beholden to corporate overlords and quarterly report-driven shareholder value-based crap. I'm absolutely willing to take a financial pay cut for that.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  I'd say the number of people willing to take a 5x paycut (it is literally 5x) for feeling better about themselves is pretty small. The number of those people who are qualified to work on matching algorithms and pricing algorithms is even smaller. And you need matching and pricing algorithms to compete against Uber and Lyft, because they can price discriminate (e.g. airport rides) against consumers and get better utilization out of drivers, so if they have to compete, they can pay drivers more than you.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    > I'd say the number of people willing to take a 5x paycut (it is literally 5x) for feeling better about themselves is pretty small What do you suppose is the median salary for devs in the US? Tech salaries are increasingly bimodal, take care not to be deceived by big tech/bay area salaries.
    - ceeplusplus 4y ago
      Sure, but then you are hiring less skilled talent that is probably incapable of working on pricing and matching algorithms (which along with scale are the real advantage Uber has, since everyone can make a crappy iOS app and call it a day). If the algorithms didn't matter then Uber wouldn't be maintaining 70% marketshare in the US. Also, a quick look at levels.fyi says salary at IBM (i.e. your median salary dev) for a senior is 192k. Compared to 80k for a ridesharing coop, that's still quite the salary cut. Don't forget a lot of these coops are based in HCOL areas like NYC.

sudosysgen 4y ago

That's 80k + a share, which may have a lot of value.

jonas21 4y ago
Though you have to buy that share.
- msk-lywenn 4y ago
  It’s usually progressively deduced from your salary, you don’t need to buy it upfront
  - jonas21 4y ago
    At least in this case, it sounds like you buy it upfront. > Mondragon’s co-ops share the same detailed information with worker-owners, who buy into their co-ops by making one-time payments of roughly sixteen thousand euros in most co-ops.
    - sangnoir 4y ago
      I'm sure Mondragon's financing coöp will happily assist with funding a loan, underwritten by an insurance coöp and paid through the bank coöp. It's turtles^w coöps all the way down.

jack_pp 4y ago

Won't it work though? The market isn't full of rational salary optimizing actors, there are some (probably a small percentage) that care more about their work env and culture than salary. This might be either because they already feel they have enough money or simply hate the normal corporate culture.

nine_k 4y ago
Ideally the pay cut would be smaller than he expense of buying antidepressants and regular therapist visits.
- jack_pp 4y ago
  I don't know about you but I'd rather not spend years of my life sedated on drugs just for money. There are places to live outside the states that don't require you to make 100k per year to have a very good life.
  - nine_k 4y ago
    Exactly my point. A soul-crushing job may be not worth it just from the financial perspective.

kqr 4y ago

Generally you won't find investors pouring millions into co-op because investors do this in expectation of ownership and control -- the opposite of what they get in a co-op. So it's harder for a co-op to raise the ridiculous amounts of money they need to pay outsized compensation. Instead, part of the compensation package is to not be beholden to corporate overlords and quarterly report-driven shareholder value-based crap. I'm absolutely willing to take a financial pay cut for that.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
I'd say the number of people willing to take a 5x paycut (it is literally 5x) for feeling better about themselves is pretty small. The number of those people who are qualified to work on matching algorithms and pricing algorithms is even smaller. And you need matching and pricing algorithms to compete against Uber and Lyft, because they can price discriminate (e.g. airport rides) against consumers and get better utilization out of drivers, so if they have to compete, they can pay drivers more than you.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > I'd say the number of people willing to take a 5x paycut (it is literally 5x) for feeling better about themselves is pretty small What do you suppose is the median salary for devs in the US? Tech salaries are increasingly bimodal, take care not to be deceived by big tech/bay area salaries.
  - ceeplusplus 4y ago
    Sure, but then you are hiring less skilled talent that is probably incapable of working on pricing and matching algorithms (which along with scale are the real advantage Uber has, since everyone can make a crappy iOS app and call it a day). If the algorithms didn't matter then Uber wouldn't be maintaining 70% marketshare in the US. Also, a quick look at levels.fyi says salary at IBM (i.e. your median salary dev) for a senior is 192k. Compared to 80k for a ridesharing coop, that's still quite the salary cut. Don't forget a lot of these coops are based in HCOL areas like NYC.