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Most top STEM departments are very immigrant-heavy (sometimes more than 50%). It can be both true that US universities have top departments, while Americans are

Most top STEM departments are very immigrant-heavy (sometimes more than 50%). It can be both true that US universities have top departments, while Americans are disadvantaged at getting in (by having weaker foundations, particularly in math). A STEM professor once told me he needed a Masters in math before they would let him in. They doubted an American with just an undergrad degree could handle the technical challenge. This was almost 2 decades ago, since then the gap may have widened a bit.

EddySchauHai 4y ago
While PhDs without masters are common in Europe, universities may have doctoral training centers that have an extra years to act like a masters. My wife went straight from undergrad at Oxford and her PhD was four years instead of the usual three with the first year consisting of short courses & projects.
- hikingsimulator 4y ago
  The UK is very different from continental Europe. Your statement isn't quite valid. The EU has had the BMD reform in the past where education systems were standardized to a bachelor-master-doctorate three-party system. To get to a PhD, you need first a bachelor (the name usually varies depending on the country, e.g., it is called a license in France), then a master. That's the very common pipeline there. Doing a PhD without a master is a rare thing.
  - EddySchauHai 4y ago
    Huh, interesting. Most of my friends who have PhDs don't have masters and that's Europe-wide! The UK definitely is different though. I got onto a Masters in CS without a Bachelors and was discussing carrying on into a PhD which would have been pretty interesting to explain on my CV.
pcrh 4y ago
Most places that recruit globally are likely to have a greater proportion of international members, especially if language and social factors are less important for success. So being immigrant-heavy doesn't necessarily indicate a relative failing of the US educational system.

EddySchauHai 4y ago

While PhDs without masters are common in Europe, universities may have doctoral training centers that have an extra years to act like a masters. My wife went straight from undergrad at Oxford and her PhD was four years instead of the usual three with the first year consisting of short courses & projects.

hikingsimulator 4y ago
The UK is very different from continental Europe. Your statement isn't quite valid. The EU has had the BMD reform in the past where education systems were standardized to a bachelor-master-doctorate three-party system. To get to a PhD, you need first a bachelor (the name usually varies depending on the country, e.g., it is called a license in France), then a master. That's the very common pipeline there. Doing a PhD without a master is a rare thing.
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  Huh, interesting. Most of my friends who have PhDs don't have masters and that's Europe-wide! The UK definitely is different though. I got onto a Masters in CS without a Bachelors and was discussing carrying on into a PhD which would have been pretty interesting to explain on my CV.

pcrh 4y ago

Most places that recruit globally are likely to have a greater proportion of international members, especially if language and social factors are less important for success. So being immigrant-heavy doesn't necessarily indicate a relative failing of the US educational system.