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Perhaps unfair to inject a mini-AskHN, but here goes: I'm a Mac user these days, and I have seen that one can go down the rabbit hole with keyboards. I have ze

Perhaps unfair to inject a mini-AskHN, but here goes: I'm a Mac user these days, and I have seen that one can go down the rabbit hole with keyboards. I have zero interest in building one. I do have a WASD keyboard, but I've also wanted a bit more, like (better) layers : I have a few fond memories of VT420 life, when those numpad keys and the GOLD/BLUE layers were awesome.) I also don't use Windows...so use of at least some Windows-focused firmware seems less accessible. Reddit seems much more about builds - interesting for keyboard porn and inspiration, I suppose, but not actionable. It also seems many good things are purchased via drops so I suppose that way can work if you know where to go and how long to wait. I've looked about for a good keyboard with programmable firmware, for a Mac...or even just a programmable numpad-looking macropad, but maybe there's more I've not seen. What resources are out there to find ways to find off the shelf options, for Macs? Edit: s/these/off the shelf options/

edanm 4y ago
I'm only a small bit into this hobby/obsession, but the two keyboards I'd recommend are the Moonlander or the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. They're both split, but the UHK can be combined together (not so easy on the Moonlander.) They're very popular, so have a bunch of good out-of-the-box documentation and a good out-of-the-box experience if you don't want to go too far into the rabbit hole of configuring keys and stuff. I think the UHK is a bit more pleasant build-quality wise, and it's definitely easier to start with because it's not columnar, which is a whole other thing that a keyboard can be. (Some people like columnar layouts, some hate it, I'm undecided myself and use both.)
koziserek 4y ago
In the realm of programmable keyboards, it doesn’t really matter which OS you will use it with… My golden medium is Anne Pro II, even though I own new model F. But more and more I’m getting drawn to an idea of building 36 keys custom. Watch something from a channel of this hugely underrated gent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VuXVErD6E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VuXVErD6E Edit: typos (ipad screen kbd…)
badlucklottery 4y ago
Any keyboard that supports QMK (wired) or ZMK (wireless) will be Mac-compatible, you just have to replace some keycodes in the firmware. QMK keyboards: https://qmk.fm/keyboards/ https://qmk.fm/keyboards/ ZMK keyboards: https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware Note: I'm not 100% sure the ZMK list is up to date as it's under much more active development and new keyboards get support all the time since almost any keyboard that has QMK support can get ZMK support by swapping the AmTel-based Pro Micro for a nRF52840-based nice!nano board.
- Jailbird 4y ago
  I did find ZMK, thanks! It seems though that - you have to go buy a board and a shield and put stuff together yourself - at least that's how it looked to me.
  - badlucklottery 4y ago
    There's definitely pre-built options out there. On the QMK side you have stuff like the Technik, Keychron, Moonlander, and a lot more. On the ZMK side there's a few options right now but there's some in the pipeline like the new Kinesis 360 "pro" model. There's also a lot of small companies offering build/modification services if you're not comfortable with a soldering iron but want something more exotic. It's usually not cheap but keyboards are honestly a really expensive hobby.
    - Jailbird 4y ago
      Thanks! I'll keep looking. I'm not uncomfortable with a soldering iron... but it's just not where I want to spend my time and mental energy these days. I see they're going to be expensive, and that's OK for me. I plan to get one good tool, not start a collection.
kibibyte 4y ago
Ergodox-based keyboards might interest you. I use one myself with a Mac. And you could easily set up a specific layer to give you a numpad. There's a bit of a learning curve however: it's a split keyboard with keys arranged in an ortholinear layout. For off-the-shelf options, look into Ergodox EZ.
- pletnes 4y ago
  I love the Moonlander, which is similar and works great with macOS. Including media keys, screen brightness, etc.
- Jailbird 4y ago
  Thanks, I did see them. Splits are not interesting to me. Not yet anyway.
ttepasse 4y ago
If you just want to adjust your keyboard layout, MacOS has historically a rather flexible and adjustable keyboard layout and key binding systems. For custom keyboard layouts there is the app Ukulele which is slightly more easier than writing the XML files per hand: https://software.sil.org/ukelele/ https://software.sil.org/ukelele/ https://web.archive.org/web/20080509183706/http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2056.html https://web.archive.org/web/20080509183706/http://developer.... For more complicated key bindings the Cocoa Text System is rather nice; you can even create little macros: https://web.archive.org/web/20061127104844/http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/Site/cocoa-text.html https://web.archive.org/web/20061127104844/http://www.hcs.ha... (Disclaimer: I last tested these things 2005ish and Apple is only moving forward. Still I think those systems are still there.)
comfypotato 4y ago
Check out kmonad. I hear a lot of people try mech keyboards and talk about how much they miss the native Mac keyboards. Kmonad will allow you lots of flexibility with layers and all the basics you get with QMK without having to leave your keyboard.
- Jailbird 4y ago
  I'll do that. I already see overlap with Karabiner Elements, but it does seem like everything in this space overlaps everything else, so... par for the course. Thanks for the tip!
  - comfypotato 4y ago
    Basically kmonad allows your home row to be modifiers on hold, and Karabiner allows combos [1]. These are both functionalities that are readily available with QMK. Ultimately QMK can do anything you can think of with a little bit of effort. If you aren't set on sticking with the built-in keyboard, the mech keyboard rabbit hole is really wonderful. 1: https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/issues/227 https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/issues/227
    - Jailbird 4y ago
      Interesting - I do still want to stick with off the shelf. I have a WASD V3 (so no QMK there afiact) but also a MacBookPro - for which I'd happilly buy an [off the shelf] external keyboard to get QMK/ZMK, or really - layers/combos/more-keys-as-macros/etc. Since I'm thinking external, that's why I was looking for off the shelf options where it does seem the firmware is all-powerful.

edanm 4y ago

I'm only a small bit into this hobby/obsession, but the two keyboards I'd recommend are the Moonlander or the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. They're both split, but the UHK can be combined together (not so easy on the Moonlander.) They're very popular, so have a bunch of good out-of-the-box documentation and a good out-of-the-box experience if you don't want to go too far into the rabbit hole of configuring keys and stuff. I think the UHK is a bit more pleasant build-quality wise, and it's definitely easier to start with because it's not columnar, which is a whole other thing that a keyboard can be. (Some people like columnar layouts, some hate it, I'm undecided myself and use both.)

koziserek 4y ago

In the realm of programmable keyboards, it doesn’t really matter which OS you will use it with… My golden medium is Anne Pro II, even though I own new model F. But more and more I’m getting drawn to an idea of building 36 keys custom. Watch something from a channel of this hugely underrated gent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VuXVErD6E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VuXVErD6E Edit: typos (ipad screen kbd…)

badlucklottery 4y ago

Any keyboard that supports QMK (wired) or ZMK (wireless) will be Mac-compatible, you just have to replace some keycodes in the firmware. QMK keyboards: https://qmk.fm/keyboards/ https://qmk.fm/keyboards/ ZMK keyboards: https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware Note: I'm not 100% sure the ZMK list is up to date as it's under much more active development and new keyboards get support all the time since almost any keyboard that has QMK support can get ZMK support by swapping the AmTel-based Pro Micro for a nRF52840-based nice!nano board.

Jailbird 4y ago
I did find ZMK, thanks! It seems though that - you have to go buy a board and a shield and put stuff together yourself - at least that's how it looked to me.
- badlucklottery 4y ago
  There's definitely pre-built options out there. On the QMK side you have stuff like the Technik, Keychron, Moonlander, and a lot more. On the ZMK side there's a few options right now but there's some in the pipeline like the new Kinesis 360 "pro" model. There's also a lot of small companies offering build/modification services if you're not comfortable with a soldering iron but want something more exotic. It's usually not cheap but keyboards are honestly a really expensive hobby.
  - Jailbird 4y ago
    Thanks! I'll keep looking. I'm not uncomfortable with a soldering iron... but it's just not where I want to spend my time and mental energy these days. I see they're going to be expensive, and that's OK for me. I plan to get one good tool, not start a collection.

kibibyte 4y ago

Ergodox-based keyboards might interest you. I use one myself with a Mac. And you could easily set up a specific layer to give you a numpad. There's a bit of a learning curve however: it's a split keyboard with keys arranged in an ortholinear layout. For off-the-shelf options, look into Ergodox EZ.

pletnes 4y ago
I love the Moonlander, which is similar and works great with macOS. Including media keys, screen brightness, etc.
Jailbird 4y ago
Thanks, I did see them. Splits are not interesting to me. Not yet anyway.

ttepasse 4y ago

If you just want to adjust your keyboard layout, MacOS has historically a rather flexible and adjustable keyboard layout and key binding systems. For custom keyboard layouts there is the app Ukulele which is slightly more easier than writing the XML files per hand: https://software.sil.org/ukelele/ https://software.sil.org/ukelele/ https://web.archive.org/web/20080509183706/http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2056.html https://web.archive.org/web/20080509183706/http://developer.... For more complicated key bindings the Cocoa Text System is rather nice; you can even create little macros: https://web.archive.org/web/20061127104844/http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/Site/cocoa-text.html https://web.archive.org/web/20061127104844/http://www.hcs.ha... (Disclaimer: I last tested these things 2005ish and Apple is only moving forward. Still I think those systems are still there.)

comfypotato 4y ago

Check out kmonad. I hear a lot of people try mech keyboards and talk about how much they miss the native Mac keyboards. Kmonad will allow you lots of flexibility with layers and all the basics you get with QMK without having to leave your keyboard.

Jailbird 4y ago
I'll do that. I already see overlap with Karabiner Elements, but it does seem like everything in this space overlaps everything else, so... par for the course. Thanks for the tip!
- comfypotato 4y ago
  Basically kmonad allows your home row to be modifiers on hold, and Karabiner allows combos [1]. These are both functionalities that are readily available with QMK. Ultimately QMK can do anything you can think of with a little bit of effort. If you aren't set on sticking with the built-in keyboard, the mech keyboard rabbit hole is really wonderful. 1: https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/issues/227 https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/issues/227
  - Jailbird 4y ago
    Interesting - I do still want to stick with off the shelf. I have a WASD V3 (so no QMK there afiact) but also a MacBookPro - for which I'd happilly buy an [off the shelf] external keyboard to get QMK/ZMK, or really - layers/combos/more-keys-as-macros/etc. Since I'm thinking external, that's why I was looking for off the shelf options where it does seem the firmware is all-powerful.