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The origin can’t be explained, because if it was explained it wouldn’t be the origin anymore. So the question of the origin is ill-posed. Yet there has to be a

The origin can’t be explained, because if it was explained it wouldn’t be the origin anymore. So the question of the origin is ill-posed. Yet there has to be an origin because an infinite history makes no sense. In the end, nothing makes sense. God must be laughing at us.

lupire 4y ago
Even secondary states might be impossible to explain, by the GP argument. > Yet there has to be an origin because an infinite history makes no sense. The origin has infinite history. > God must be laughing at us. No, because God is, like us, the descendant of something else, or else has infinite history. What if the history is cyclic? Then there is no origin.
- tsol 4y ago
  >No, because God is, like us, the descendant of something else, or else has infinite history. God could have no beginning. This makes sense because God exists outside of our conception of spacetime. We have to have a beginning, because in the universe we live in the laws of time and nature say everything has to have a beginning.
  - lazide 4y ago
    The laws we know of anyway. Maybe we’ll eventually figure out that when something passes through a singularities event horizon, that is the superheated ‘all energy’ state the universe was/is/has always been born from. It wouldn’t be the weirdest thing that’s happened!
  - mrcartmeneses 4y ago
    All of your questions will be answered in the next season of Loki.
  - renox 4y ago
    1) You just rephrased 'God has infinite history' I don't see the point. 2) 'nature say everything has to have a beginning' uh?? If you imagine the Universe expanding then contracting cyclically where is the beginning?
    - mxkopy 4y ago
      Which comes first, x/2 < x or x < 2x ? I think mathematical statements don't have causes but constraints. Could be that the universe is somehow constrained to exist because of some incredibly abstract truth.
- ranguna 4y ago
  > What if the history is cyclic? Then there is no origin. But what started the cycle? I guess we as humans are the ones at fault here, because we can't accept something infinite as an answer in the real physical world.
  - renox 4y ago
    > > What if the history is cyclic? Then there is no origin. > But what started the cycle? It's a bit like asking where is the beginning of a circle, it doesn't make sense..
    - ranguna 4y ago
      If you look at the circle on a piece of paper, yeah, it doesn't make sense _after_ it's been drawn. But it does have a beginning, you had to pickup a pencil, placed the carbon tip on the surface of the paper and then finally you were able to draw a circle. So yes, it makes sense _before_ the circle even existed. Something created the circle, it didn't materializa itself out of nothing.
- qsdf38100 4y ago
  I guess God has to be not like everything else. He has to have access to a larger set of axioms or something. Transcendence allows him to go beyond what makes sense. I mean, I’ve no idea what I’m talking about, but I have to acknowledge that the universe exists even if its existence makes no sense. I feel like I have to resign in the end, and I’m not even a religious person.
deleted 4y ago
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elevaet 4y ago
Can't it be some kind of self-explaining recursive thing - Doesn't it have to be? I think this is what Christopher Langan is on about with his CTMU theory.
willis936 4y ago
>an infinite history makes no sense Yes, it does. It's just an uncomfortable notion for people raised in Western philosophy.

lupire 4y ago

Even secondary states might be impossible to explain, by the GP argument. > Yet there has to be an origin because an infinite history makes no sense. The origin has infinite history. > God must be laughing at us. No, because God is, like us, the descendant of something else, or else has infinite history. What if the history is cyclic? Then there is no origin.

tsol 4y ago
>No, because God is, like us, the descendant of something else, or else has infinite history. God could have no beginning. This makes sense because God exists outside of our conception of spacetime. We have to have a beginning, because in the universe we live in the laws of time and nature say everything has to have a beginning.
- lazide 4y ago
  The laws we know of anyway. Maybe we’ll eventually figure out that when something passes through a singularities event horizon, that is the superheated ‘all energy’ state the universe was/is/has always been born from. It wouldn’t be the weirdest thing that’s happened!
- mrcartmeneses 4y ago
  All of your questions will be answered in the next season of Loki.
- renox 4y ago
  1) You just rephrased 'God has infinite history' I don't see the point. 2) 'nature say everything has to have a beginning' uh?? If you imagine the Universe expanding then contracting cyclically where is the beginning?
  - mxkopy 4y ago
    Which comes first, x/2 < x or x < 2x ? I think mathematical statements don't have causes but constraints. Could be that the universe is somehow constrained to exist because of some incredibly abstract truth.
ranguna 4y ago
> What if the history is cyclic? Then there is no origin. But what started the cycle? I guess we as humans are the ones at fault here, because we can't accept something infinite as an answer in the real physical world.
- renox 4y ago
  > > What if the history is cyclic? Then there is no origin. > But what started the cycle? It's a bit like asking where is the beginning of a circle, it doesn't make sense..
  - ranguna 4y ago
    If you look at the circle on a piece of paper, yeah, it doesn't make sense _after_ it's been drawn. But it does have a beginning, you had to pickup a pencil, placed the carbon tip on the surface of the paper and then finally you were able to draw a circle. So yes, it makes sense _before_ the circle even existed. Something created the circle, it didn't materializa itself out of nothing.
qsdf38100 4y ago
I guess God has to be not like everything else. He has to have access to a larger set of axioms or something. Transcendence allows him to go beyond what makes sense. I mean, I’ve no idea what I’m talking about, but I have to acknowledge that the universe exists even if its existence makes no sense. I feel like I have to resign in the end, and I’m not even a religious person.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

elevaet 4y ago

Can't it be some kind of self-explaining recursive thing - Doesn't it have to be? I think this is what Christopher Langan is on about with his CTMU theory.

willis936 4y ago

>an infinite history makes no sense Yes, it does. It's just an uncomfortable notion for people raised in Western philosophy.