7 ms·

Put solar panels on your roof and contact your energy company so they can be hooked up to provide power onto the grid and give you energy credits. Not every ar

Put solar panels on your roof and contact your energy company so they can be hooked up to provide power onto the grid and give you energy credits. Not every area allows this but from what I understand some folks make money in the summer and then that offsets the costs they spend pulling power from the grid in the winter. You really need to do a lot of research to figure out if it's feasible and if you have enough sunlight, area for panels, etc. to make it worthwhile. There's a lot of upfront costs too with the panels, meters, and extra protections necessary for when you're interfacing with sending power onto the grid--a lot of folks need to run their system for 5-10 years or more before it breaks even and starts making them money vs. all the initial costs.

nathanaldensr 4y ago
Be aware that the risk of fire increases with roof-mounted solar panels. Also be aware of effects on homeowners insurance policies.
- piotrkaminski 4y ago
  Citation? It's not intuitive why that should happen -- potential short-circuits?
  - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
    A certain amount of searching should be required before forcing homework onto others. You can literally google "risk of fire increases with roof-mounted solar panels" and you will see it from tons of sources including pv-magazine and others. "Citation?", "[Citation]", "Citation Needed" - these all bother me when the research is literally just copy/paste/search.
    - djbusby 4y ago
    - FPGAhacker 4y ago
      If you are going to make a claim, you should back it up with citations. [1] [1] https://guides.lib.uw.edu/research/citations/citationwhat https://guides.lib.uw.edu/research/citations/citationwhat
      - nkrisc 4y ago
        You’re putting an electrical system where there wasn’t one before. It’d be surprising if there wasn’t an increased risk. More electrical systems in your house means more risk of fire.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      Arguments presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The person making a claim is the one required to back up their argument - not forcing homework on everyone who reads their unbaked argument to find evidence for your claims.
      - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
        Interesting point, but I'm going to need a citation for that.
        LegitShady 4y ago
        cute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor
      - dpifke 4y ago
        Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - Tempest1981 4y ago
    From https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2021/11/16/a-guide-to-addressing-fire-risks-in-rooftop-solar/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2021/11/16/a-guide-to-addressing... "More than 90% of inspected rooftops had significant safety and fire risks. Here’s how to protect your solar asset." Lots of bad wiring. Get a 3rd party inspector.
    - piotrkaminski 4y ago
      Interesting and useful -- thanks. My understanding is that, at least for residential installations, the city sends an inspector to check things before you're allowed to turn the system on. This would appear to avoid the first-party inspector issues identified in the article, but are the city inspectors sufficiently "strict" or should I hire my own for peace of mind?
      - Tempest1981 4y ago
        I saw one non-solar project where the city inspector seemed to be friends with the electrical contractor. They spent 20 minutes shooting the breeze, then the inspector did a super-fast scan of things, signed off, and left. May be best to watch the inspector do the inspection?
  - davidbanham 4y ago
    In Australia we have a large amount of rooftop solar. We used to fit isolation switches near the panels on the roofs so that we could de-energise as much wiring as possible in the case of a fire. The stats showed that the rooftop isolation switches shorting out was the leading cause of fires. We no longer fit them.
- tpmx 4y ago
  There's a solar power boom going on right now. That kind of thing tends to attract bad actors, so you get sub-par installations performed by poorly trained people. That's the cause of most of the fire risk.
- gerdesj 4y ago
  How? You put some modern panels on your roof that absorb power from the sun that now no longer gets absorbed by your roof - so your roof is now a little cooler. A wooden roof is now actually less of a fire risk and a tiled roof will now absorb and radiate less heat - bonus! I live in the UK. We build from sticks n bricks. We've had a bit of a heat wave recently that concentrates the mind somewhat. My office (I'm the MD) has a vast expanse of red brick double skinned which is south facing. My desk environment is around 10C warmer than the external temperature (I have a lot of sensors deployed). I have now decreed that when my desk temp is 30C then we abandon ship and work from home. I'm going to investigate skimming the red brickwork with a white render. My parent's house is a modern build and that seems to help. Oh, fire risk? What on earth are you on about? Insurance risk? What are you on about?
  - tpmx 4y ago
    The usual way electrical fires happen: Electric wiring work done by incompetents. So much bad wiring, in places that are very inconvenient to inspect.
    - gerdesj 4y ago
      So ... don't. Easily said but ... don't
      - MAGZine 4y ago
        I'm not sure how you can realize that there is a fire risk from improper electrical but then also declare that solar panels do not increase fire risk. Properly installed? Sure, no or minimal risk. But insurance companies deal in aggregate, which includes improperly installed panels.
      - tpmx 4y ago
        Yes, easily said. There is a solar power installation boom going on. Do the math.
  - patmcc 4y ago
    >>>Oh, fire risk? What on earth are you on about? Insurance risk? What are you on about? Adding a whole bunch of electrical equipment (that's exposed to the elements, wildlife, etc.) absolutely increases the risk of fire. Panels are heavy as well, so you're increasing the load on the roof, could increase risk of collapse (especially in areas that get lots of snow). Plus, if you don't notify your insurance company, it's at best not going to cover replacement cost of panels if something goes wrong and at worst invalidate your whole policy.
swarnie 4y ago
For reference in the UK this is around 7.5p per KWH put in to the grid.
- martinald 4y ago
  Unless you use octopus agile outgoing, which is depending on the time of day anything between 30-80p+/kWh: https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export-london/ https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export-lo...
- gerdesj 4y ago
  You are better off having a bloody big battery and charging that and using it yourself. Pre the latest increase today 'leccy costed around 30p per KWH - after today it will be at least 45p. 7.5p for self generated is nice but I suggest you use your own generated power.
don-code 4y ago
"Make money" in many energy markets is a misnomer, because not all markets pay out. For instance, I have home solar in Massachusetts, where I get a billing credit at the end of the month for excess generation. I can't cash that in (so I'll never be paid), but it does give me a "free" way to use electricity in the future. (Yes, I know it's not really free, because there's no return - I effectively lose money to inflation.) I could do something economically productive with the billing credit, like charge EVs or mine crypto, but I consider that more a knock-on effect than a moneymaker.
- willnonya 4y ago
  It also ignores the upfront cost and roi. In many areas it takes almost the useful life of the panel to break even.
  - Beldin 4y ago
    Around here[1], it used to take about 7 years. With the energy prices skyrocketing, that will probably be less, even if material and install costs are now higher. [1] EU; I gathered that solar is significantly more expensive in the US.
engineerDave 4y ago
Depending on where you live, e.g. proximity to the equator, you will probably never recoup the initial investment or if you do the panels will probably be at their end of life when you do. So you'll never really "make money". But you will insulate yourself from demand spikes and give you an emergency backup.
- greedo 4y ago
  Most panels have 25-30 year warranty. And even then, they'd still operate at around 80% of rated performance.

nathanaldensr 4y ago

Be aware that the risk of fire increases with roof-mounted solar panels. Also be aware of effects on homeowners insurance policies.

piotrkaminski 4y ago
Citation? It's not intuitive why that should happen -- potential short-circuits?
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  A certain amount of searching should be required before forcing homework onto others. You can literally google "risk of fire increases with roof-mounted solar panels" and you will see it from tons of sources including pv-magazine and others. "Citation?", "[Citation]", "Citation Needed" - these all bother me when the research is literally just copy/paste/search.
  - djbusby 4y ago
  - FPGAhacker 4y ago
    If you are going to make a claim, you should back it up with citations. [1] [1] https://guides.lib.uw.edu/research/citations/citationwhat https://guides.lib.uw.edu/research/citations/citationwhat
    - nkrisc 4y ago
      You’re putting an electrical system where there wasn’t one before. It’d be surprising if there wasn’t an increased risk. More electrical systems in your house means more risk of fire.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    Arguments presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The person making a claim is the one required to back up their argument - not forcing homework on everyone who reads their unbaked argument to find evidence for your claims.
    - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
      Interesting point, but I'm going to need a citation for that.
      - LegitShady 4y ago
        cute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor
    - dpifke 4y ago
      Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Tempest1981 4y ago
  From https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2021/11/16/a-guide-to-addressing-fire-risks-in-rooftop-solar/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2021/11/16/a-guide-to-addressing... "More than 90% of inspected rooftops had significant safety and fire risks. Here’s how to protect your solar asset." Lots of bad wiring. Get a 3rd party inspector.
  - piotrkaminski 4y ago
    Interesting and useful -- thanks. My understanding is that, at least for residential installations, the city sends an inspector to check things before you're allowed to turn the system on. This would appear to avoid the first-party inspector issues identified in the article, but are the city inspectors sufficiently "strict" or should I hire my own for peace of mind?
    - Tempest1981 4y ago
      I saw one non-solar project where the city inspector seemed to be friends with the electrical contractor. They spent 20 minutes shooting the breeze, then the inspector did a super-fast scan of things, signed off, and left. May be best to watch the inspector do the inspection?
- davidbanham 4y ago
  In Australia we have a large amount of rooftop solar. We used to fit isolation switches near the panels on the roofs so that we could de-energise as much wiring as possible in the case of a fire. The stats showed that the rooftop isolation switches shorting out was the leading cause of fires. We no longer fit them.
tpmx 4y ago
There's a solar power boom going on right now. That kind of thing tends to attract bad actors, so you get sub-par installations performed by poorly trained people. That's the cause of most of the fire risk.
gerdesj 4y ago
How? You put some modern panels on your roof that absorb power from the sun that now no longer gets absorbed by your roof - so your roof is now a little cooler. A wooden roof is now actually less of a fire risk and a tiled roof will now absorb and radiate less heat - bonus! I live in the UK. We build from sticks n bricks. We've had a bit of a heat wave recently that concentrates the mind somewhat. My office (I'm the MD) has a vast expanse of red brick double skinned which is south facing. My desk environment is around 10C warmer than the external temperature (I have a lot of sensors deployed). I have now decreed that when my desk temp is 30C then we abandon ship and work from home. I'm going to investigate skimming the red brickwork with a white render. My parent's house is a modern build and that seems to help. Oh, fire risk? What on earth are you on about? Insurance risk? What are you on about?
- tpmx 4y ago
  The usual way electrical fires happen: Electric wiring work done by incompetents. So much bad wiring, in places that are very inconvenient to inspect.
  - gerdesj 4y ago
    So ... don't. Easily said but ... don't
    - MAGZine 4y ago
      I'm not sure how you can realize that there is a fire risk from improper electrical but then also declare that solar panels do not increase fire risk. Properly installed? Sure, no or minimal risk. But insurance companies deal in aggregate, which includes improperly installed panels.
    - tpmx 4y ago
      Yes, easily said. There is a solar power installation boom going on. Do the math.
- patmcc 4y ago
  >>>Oh, fire risk? What on earth are you on about? Insurance risk? What are you on about? Adding a whole bunch of electrical equipment (that's exposed to the elements, wildlife, etc.) absolutely increases the risk of fire. Panels are heavy as well, so you're increasing the load on the roof, could increase risk of collapse (especially in areas that get lots of snow). Plus, if you don't notify your insurance company, it's at best not going to cover replacement cost of panels if something goes wrong and at worst invalidate your whole policy.

swarnie 4y ago

For reference in the UK this is around 7.5p per KWH put in to the grid.

martinald 4y ago
Unless you use octopus agile outgoing, which is depending on the time of day anything between 30-80p+/kWh: https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export-london/ https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export-lo...
gerdesj 4y ago
You are better off having a bloody big battery and charging that and using it yourself. Pre the latest increase today 'leccy costed around 30p per KWH - after today it will be at least 45p. 7.5p for self generated is nice but I suggest you use your own generated power.

don-code 4y ago

"Make money" in many energy markets is a misnomer, because not all markets pay out. For instance, I have home solar in Massachusetts, where I get a billing credit at the end of the month for excess generation. I can't cash that in (so I'll never be paid), but it does give me a "free" way to use electricity in the future. (Yes, I know it's not really free, because there's no return - I effectively lose money to inflation.) I could do something economically productive with the billing credit, like charge EVs or mine crypto, but I consider that more a knock-on effect than a moneymaker.

willnonya 4y ago
It also ignores the upfront cost and roi. In many areas it takes almost the useful life of the panel to break even.
- Beldin 4y ago
  Around here[1], it used to take about 7 years. With the energy prices skyrocketing, that will probably be less, even if material and install costs are now higher. [1] EU; I gathered that solar is significantly more expensive in the US.

engineerDave 4y ago

Depending on where you live, e.g. proximity to the equator, you will probably never recoup the initial investment or if you do the panels will probably be at their end of life when you do. So you'll never really "make money". But you will insulate yourself from demand spikes and give you an emergency backup.

greedo 4y ago
Most panels have 25-30 year warranty. And even then, they'd still operate at around 80% of rated performance.