5 ms·

I think your hate is unwarranted. I also never understood the pricing argument, it's not all about the cpus and memory and such, there's nothing in the windows

I think your hate is unwarranted. I also never understood the pricing argument, it's not all about the cpus and memory and such, there's nothing in the windows world that comes close to build quality, battery quality and durability. If you're a software engineer working with docker a lot, a few hundred dollars shouldn't matter that much for a tool you'll use every day for years. The M1 is amazing, battery is insane, I'm running 20+ docker containers, python, elixir, react/vue on the 8gb M1 air without a hitch. My main work machine is a linux desktop, but I'm considering buying a Mac Studio as my next one.

princevegeta89 4y ago
Interesting, can't believe you're able to run all those containers on a meager 8GB. Is it because the swap ability on M1 is somehow better/faster than previous gen?
- gs17 4y ago
  The memory management definitely is better. I have an 8GB M1 Air as a "work laptop" and I've never had any issues despite my Windows/Linux computers needing an upgrade to 24 GB because 16 just wasn't cutting it anymore.
- pbronez 4y ago
  Exactly. M1 is a new processor design, not an iteration on previous intel Macs. It’s not just “better swap” - it’s “unified memory.” This makes much better use of the memory available to the system. From https://www.macworld.com/article/234843/m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.html https://www.macworld.com/article/234843/m1-macs-memory-isnt-... : “The M1 processor’s memory is a single pool that’s accessible by any portion of the processor. If the system needs more memory for graphics, it can allocate that. If it needs more memory for the Neural Engine, likewise. Even better, because all the aspects of the processor can access all of the system memory, there’s no performance hit when the graphics cores need to access something that was previously being accessed by a processor core. On other systems, the data has to be copied from one portion of memory to another—but on the M1, it’s just instantly accessible.”
  - princevegeta89 4y ago
    Thanks for the insight. Looks like the unified memory does provide a lot of complementing value to RAM in general then. However, I am wondering, what would be the value of adding more physical RAM compared to having it provisioned via swap?
    - mixmastamyk 4y ago
      SSD throughput was crippled for the entry level M2, beware. More real RAM always better to a point. 16GB is a bare minimum for a machine that can’t be upgraded imho, and has been for years. Due to that insistence our 2013 MBP is still going strong, and saved several thousand dollars in the process.
tedd4u 4y ago
For something you’re likely to use every day for at least 3-4 years in part to make a living I would say $400 is not a material difference. Like $0.35/day and that doesn’t take into account differences in residual (resale) value between Apple and non-Apple laptops.
ksec 4y ago
There are a lot of people who cant taste the difference between Pepsi and Coca Cola. Which is the reason why they dont understand the minor differences in Keyboard, Trackpad, Speakers, Chassis finishing, durability, Power Supply, Display, etc. So yes, Macbook is totally ahead of everything else in the industry. And that is coming from someone who supported Apple for 20+ years but currently intensely dislike Tim Cook's Apple.
- nikau 4y ago
  > Which is the reason why they dont understand the minor differences in Keyboard, Trackpad, Speakers, Chassis finishing, durability, Power Supply, Display, etc. Or they just have different preferences. I have a macpro and a lenovo X1 carbon, and I prefer the X1 for most things. The X1 keyboard wins hands down. The mac looks nicer with the aluminium finish and doesn't get fingerprints all over it, but its sharp edged and not a nice felling surface like the X1 rubbery coating. The X1 trackpad is smaller but tracks just as well as the mac touchpad and I prefer the physical buttons. Mac has way better sound, but its also much bigger. The X1 weighs significantly less but feels like its made out of stone with its carbon and magnesium chassis. The biggest benefit of Apple is they don't make low end trash laptops - so if you are starting a corporate job the Apple laptop is a safer pick vs the Windows laptop lottery where you might get some janky low end Dell.
  - ksec 4y ago
    Agree with almost everything. But again most dont pick X1 as comparison in terms of Windows Laptop. Especially the Keyboard, 1.5mm Ley Travel ( if I remember correctly ). Which was the old scissor keyboard Apple used to have but switch to some insane low key travel typing experience. I think a lot of the Windows Laptop are finally catching up to Macbook. Simply because YouTube and reviewers are pointing out some of these things as comparison. And funny enough Microsoft is the one pushing this with their Surface Laptop. And largely the last point is the key difference. Apple dont make low end trash.
    - nikau 4y ago
      These debates always follow the same path - compare mac to crappy windows laptop of half the price, then compare to retail price of a decent windows laptop, then compare to street price of a decent windows laptop. In reality if you are paying out of your own pocket the best value is to keep an eye on the refresh cycle for decent windows laptops and buy the previous generation at a heavy discount when the latest one comes out. This obviously assumes you aren't needing a new laptop asap, rather just upgrading for whatever reason.

princevegeta89 4y ago

Interesting, can't believe you're able to run all those containers on a meager 8GB. Is it because the swap ability on M1 is somehow better/faster than previous gen?

gs17 4y ago
The memory management definitely is better. I have an 8GB M1 Air as a "work laptop" and I've never had any issues despite my Windows/Linux computers needing an upgrade to 24 GB because 16 just wasn't cutting it anymore.
pbronez 4y ago
Exactly. M1 is a new processor design, not an iteration on previous intel Macs. It’s not just “better swap” - it’s “unified memory.” This makes much better use of the memory available to the system. From https://www.macworld.com/article/234843/m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.html https://www.macworld.com/article/234843/m1-macs-memory-isnt-... : “The M1 processor’s memory is a single pool that’s accessible by any portion of the processor. If the system needs more memory for graphics, it can allocate that. If it needs more memory for the Neural Engine, likewise. Even better, because all the aspects of the processor can access all of the system memory, there’s no performance hit when the graphics cores need to access something that was previously being accessed by a processor core. On other systems, the data has to be copied from one portion of memory to another—but on the M1, it’s just instantly accessible.”
- princevegeta89 4y ago
  Thanks for the insight. Looks like the unified memory does provide a lot of complementing value to RAM in general then. However, I am wondering, what would be the value of adding more physical RAM compared to having it provisioned via swap?
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    SSD throughput was crippled for the entry level M2, beware. More real RAM always better to a point. 16GB is a bare minimum for a machine that can’t be upgraded imho, and has been for years. Due to that insistence our 2013 MBP is still going strong, and saved several thousand dollars in the process.

tedd4u 4y ago

For something you’re likely to use every day for at least 3-4 years in part to make a living I would say $400 is not a material difference. Like $0.35/day and that doesn’t take into account differences in residual (resale) value between Apple and non-Apple laptops.

ksec 4y ago

There are a lot of people who cant taste the difference between Pepsi and Coca Cola. Which is the reason why they dont understand the minor differences in Keyboard, Trackpad, Speakers, Chassis finishing, durability, Power Supply, Display, etc. So yes, Macbook is totally ahead of everything else in the industry. And that is coming from someone who supported Apple for 20+ years but currently intensely dislike Tim Cook's Apple.

nikau 4y ago
> Which is the reason why they dont understand the minor differences in Keyboard, Trackpad, Speakers, Chassis finishing, durability, Power Supply, Display, etc. Or they just have different preferences. I have a macpro and a lenovo X1 carbon, and I prefer the X1 for most things. The X1 keyboard wins hands down. The mac looks nicer with the aluminium finish and doesn't get fingerprints all over it, but its sharp edged and not a nice felling surface like the X1 rubbery coating. The X1 trackpad is smaller but tracks just as well as the mac touchpad and I prefer the physical buttons. Mac has way better sound, but its also much bigger. The X1 weighs significantly less but feels like its made out of stone with its carbon and magnesium chassis. The biggest benefit of Apple is they don't make low end trash laptops - so if you are starting a corporate job the Apple laptop is a safer pick vs the Windows laptop lottery where you might get some janky low end Dell.
- ksec 4y ago
  Agree with almost everything. But again most dont pick X1 as comparison in terms of Windows Laptop. Especially the Keyboard, 1.5mm Ley Travel ( if I remember correctly ). Which was the old scissor keyboard Apple used to have but switch to some insane low key travel typing experience. I think a lot of the Windows Laptop are finally catching up to Macbook. Simply because YouTube and reviewers are pointing out some of these things as comparison. And funny enough Microsoft is the one pushing this with their Surface Laptop. And largely the last point is the key difference. Apple dont make low end trash.
  - nikau 4y ago
    These debates always follow the same path - compare mac to crappy windows laptop of half the price, then compare to retail price of a decent windows laptop, then compare to street price of a decent windows laptop. In reality if you are paying out of your own pocket the best value is to keep an eye on the refresh cycle for decent windows laptops and buy the previous generation at a heavy discount when the latest one comes out. This obviously assumes you aren't needing a new laptop asap, rather just upgrading for whatever reason.