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That and, you know, profit.

kortilla 4y ago
There isn’t enough profit there though for that to be the driving force. Prisons as an industry make far less than industries with little to no political sway for even trivial protectionist policies.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  There doesn’t need to be much profit per prisoner when you have millions of prisoners and you are paid to have them, and can use their labour.
- dgeiser13 4y ago
  I believe you are wrong about for-profit prisons. It is 100% the reason that the US has so many incarcerated. Any time you can get government to foot the bill for something cottage industries will spring up around it.
  - kortilla 4y ago
    > It is 100% the reason that the US has so many incarcerated. Any time you can get government to foot the bill for something cottage industries will spring up around it. That doesn’t make sense. Building a prison in itself doesn’t induce crime nor does it induce prison sentences. Judges and juries have no quotas to fill based on vacancy.
    - dgeiser13 4y ago
      I don't think you realize how corrupt the whole thing is. https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-mark-ciavarella-kids-for-cash https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-ma...
- sillystuff 4y ago
  > There isn’t enough profit... Some private prison corporations and judges both felt it was profitable enough. Two Pennsylvania judges received $2.8M in bribes from private prisons to send 4,000 kids to the private prisons with long sentences; apparently ruining 4,000 kids lives was profitable enough to justify $2.8M in bribes. One of the judges has managed to get released early. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686/pa-judge-sentenced-to-28-years-in-massive-juvenile-justice-bribery-scandal https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686... https://boingboing.net/2013/08/06/judge-who-accepted-private-pri.html https://boingboing.net/2013/08/06/judge-who-accepted-private...
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Right, you’ll see pockets of individual corruption but that doesn’t account for why there is a systemic overpopulation. Unless you are suggesting every judge is on the take, in which case no amount of law reform will matter without first removing all of the judges.
    - sillystuff 4y ago
      I am suggesting that this example of corruption is evidence that there is sufficient profit in private prisons to motivate efforts (legal and illegal) to affect policy. E.g., private prisons likely spend at least as much in legal lobbying efforts to maintain high prison populations as they do in bribes.
- trasz 4y ago
  Those 11B$ each year from slave labour are an important part of some states economy: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-workers-low-wages-exploited https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-wo...
fwsgonzo 4y ago
Indeed, as we see time and time again, including in this article. Not sure why you are downvoted.

There isn’t enough profit there though for that to be the driving force. Prisons as an industry make far less than industries with little to no political sway for even trivial protectionist policies.

lostlogin 4y ago
There doesn’t need to be much profit per prisoner when you have millions of prisoners and you are paid to have them, and can use their labour.
dgeiser13 4y ago
I believe you are wrong about for-profit prisons. It is 100% the reason that the US has so many incarcerated. Any time you can get government to foot the bill for something cottage industries will spring up around it.
- kortilla 4y ago
  > It is 100% the reason that the US has so many incarcerated. Any time you can get government to foot the bill for something cottage industries will spring up around it. That doesn’t make sense. Building a prison in itself doesn’t induce crime nor does it induce prison sentences. Judges and juries have no quotas to fill based on vacancy.
  - dgeiser13 4y ago
    I don't think you realize how corrupt the whole thing is. https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-mark-ciavarella-kids-for-cash https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-ma...
sillystuff 4y ago
> There isn’t enough profit... Some private prison corporations and judges both felt it was profitable enough. Two Pennsylvania judges received $2.8M in bribes from private prisons to send 4,000 kids to the private prisons with long sentences; apparently ruining 4,000 kids lives was profitable enough to justify $2.8M in bribes. One of the judges has managed to get released early. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686/pa-judge-sentenced-to-28-years-in-massive-juvenile-justice-bribery-scandal https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686... https://boingboing.net/2013/08/06/judge-who-accepted-private-pri.html https://boingboing.net/2013/08/06/judge-who-accepted-private...
- kortilla 4y ago
  Right, you’ll see pockets of individual corruption but that doesn’t account for why there is a systemic overpopulation. Unless you are suggesting every judge is on the take, in which case no amount of law reform will matter without first removing all of the judges.
  - sillystuff 4y ago
    I am suggesting that this example of corruption is evidence that there is sufficient profit in private prisons to motivate efforts (legal and illegal) to affect policy. E.g., private prisons likely spend at least as much in legal lobbying efforts to maintain high prison populations as they do in bribes.
trasz 4y ago
Those 11B$ each year from slave labour are an important part of some states economy: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-workers-low-wages-exploited https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-wo...

fwsgonzo 4y ago

Indeed, as we see time and time again, including in this article. Not sure why you are downvoted.