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Great points. I’m honestly fine with the 10k-20k forgiveness if there were any effort whatsoever to stop this absurd price gouging by colleges. Colleges have p

Great points. I’m honestly fine with the 10k-20k forgiveness if there were any effort whatsoever to stop this absurd price gouging by colleges. Colleges have put millions of Americans in indentured servitude and the US government has responded by giving then an even bigger subsidy.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
I disagree. The US Government is the problem - by creating loans 18-year olds can't default on - when hardly any of them understand the consequences. If colleges don't offer ever juicier amenities, the students will take their debt elsewhere to get a better offering. Colleges are simply competing for students. The amount of debt they can get - and therefore the amount of school they can "afford" is the problem.
- dudul 4y ago
  It is, but proceeding with this free money giveaway without fixing the underlying problem is distasteful. It's literally trying to buy votes, it's not trying to make things better for the next generations.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
  You know, they wouldn't have that problem if the loans could have the threat of default. You trim what you don't need and highly focus on what ensures the loan doesn't default. It is literally risk free money so they're going to inflate the price so that they get the most for least investment and least risk.
- googlryas 4y ago
  It's a good thing that student loans cannot be defaulted on. That makes lenders more likely to give out loans, which helps marginalized people many of whom might be the first to ever attend college in their family. Will a bank normally give a loan to an 18 year old with no credit score, with no cosigners, whose parents either have awful or no credit?
  - Turing_Machine 4y ago
    There aren't any banks or other lenders involved (other than the government) and haven't been since way back in the Obama administration.
  - cpursley 4y ago
    How are degrees without job prospects (which are actually capable of paying off the non-defaultable loans) helpful to marginalized people? It seems like just the opposite effect.
    - googlryas 4y ago
      Why would a college graduate have no job prospects? I think you'll find people coming from marginalized backgrounds are much more likely to enter a field of study with plentiful job prospects.
      - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
        Why do poor people disproportionately attend for-profit college and get non-STEM degrees then?
        googlryas 4y ago
        They attend for profit colleges because they are commonly duped by promises of a certain salary or job placement. And commonly not sophisticated enough to understand that not all debts are created equal and accreditation matters in education.
  - GenerocUsername 4y ago
    Should a bank give out a loan that cannot be escaped to someone incapable of returning it?
    - googlryas 4y ago
      The idea is that they will be able to return it after going to college.
- LewisVerstappen 4y ago
  Uhh I think we're making the same point here. > The amount of debt they can get - and therefore the amount of school they can "afford" is the problem. Yeah like, this is another form of a subsidy to colleges. Imagine if the US government would let you easily get a $200k loan to buy a car.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    > Imagine if the US government would let you easily get a $200k loan to buy a car. Or have Fannie and Feddie artificially lower interest rates with a government bailout guarantee so you can get the same house... but pay 50% more for it (total, not monthly payment).
- wdr1 4y ago
  > by creating loans 18-year olds can't default on But you can default on them. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/busting-myths-about-bankruptcy-and-private-student-loans/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/busting-myths-... "For too long, a myth has persisted that student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. The myth is not true because, in fact, student loans can be discharged bankruptcy. We have seen the Department of Education take important steps to ensure that bankruptcy relief is available to federal student loan borrowers. "
tomohawk 4y ago
- enraged_camel 4y ago
  This is genuinely one of the funniest comments I’ve read on HN.
- metadat 4y ago
  So much judgement against kids who sought an education. I'm curious, how do you feel about politicians such as Marjorie Taylor Greene getting her $183,504 USD PPP loan forgiven? She also happens to be vehemently and vocally opposed to student loan debt forgiveness. Another one mentioned in the link below, Vern Buchanan, took $2.3 million in PPP covid loan forgiveness. He's also opposed to student loan forgiveness. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/white-house-shines-light-republicans-are-criticizing-student-debt-canc-rcna44904 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/white-house-shi... How does any of this make sense? Are we, in the USA, collectively just a bunch of selfish jerks who can't see past our own noses? The lack of empathy may not be surprising at this point, but it is embarrassing and arguably immoral and inexcusable.
  - dudul 4y ago
    Where is the empathy for the ones who worked hard and made sacrifices to pay off their loan? Where is the empathy for the ones who passed on a college education because they didn't think they would be able to pay off the loan? As for the politicians you bring up, ok it's infuriating now what? 2 wrongs don't make a right.
    - gurchik 4y ago
      > Where is the empathy for the ones who passed on a college education because they didn't think they would be able to pay off the loan? I don't understand. No matter what kind of reform is done (making college cheaper, or forgiving loans, or any other solution) it will still be the case that some people in the past couldn't go to college because it was too expensive back then. So we can never change anything?
afiori 4y ago
You might like this classic: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/06/06/against-tulip-subsidies/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/06/06/against-tulip-subsidie...

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

I disagree. The US Government is the problem - by creating loans 18-year olds can't default on - when hardly any of them understand the consequences. If colleges don't offer ever juicier amenities, the students will take their debt elsewhere to get a better offering. Colleges are simply competing for students. The amount of debt they can get - and therefore the amount of school they can "afford" is the problem.

dudul 4y ago
It is, but proceeding with this free money giveaway without fixing the underlying problem is distasteful. It's literally trying to buy votes, it's not trying to make things better for the next generations.
sieabahlpark 4y ago
You know, they wouldn't have that problem if the loans could have the threat of default. You trim what you don't need and highly focus on what ensures the loan doesn't default. It is literally risk free money so they're going to inflate the price so that they get the most for least investment and least risk.
googlryas 4y ago
It's a good thing that student loans cannot be defaulted on. That makes lenders more likely to give out loans, which helps marginalized people many of whom might be the first to ever attend college in their family. Will a bank normally give a loan to an 18 year old with no credit score, with no cosigners, whose parents either have awful or no credit?
- Turing_Machine 4y ago
  There aren't any banks or other lenders involved (other than the government) and haven't been since way back in the Obama administration.
- cpursley 4y ago
  How are degrees without job prospects (which are actually capable of paying off the non-defaultable loans) helpful to marginalized people? It seems like just the opposite effect.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Why would a college graduate have no job prospects? I think you'll find people coming from marginalized backgrounds are much more likely to enter a field of study with plentiful job prospects.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
      Why do poor people disproportionately attend for-profit college and get non-STEM degrees then?
      - googlryas 4y ago
        They attend for profit colleges because they are commonly duped by promises of a certain salary or job placement. And commonly not sophisticated enough to understand that not all debts are created equal and accreditation matters in education.
- GenerocUsername 4y ago
  Should a bank give out a loan that cannot be escaped to someone incapable of returning it?
  - googlryas 4y ago
    The idea is that they will be able to return it after going to college.
LewisVerstappen 4y ago
Uhh I think we're making the same point here. > The amount of debt they can get - and therefore the amount of school they can "afford" is the problem. Yeah like, this is another form of a subsidy to colleges. Imagine if the US government would let you easily get a $200k loan to buy a car.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  > Imagine if the US government would let you easily get a $200k loan to buy a car. Or have Fannie and Feddie artificially lower interest rates with a government bailout guarantee so you can get the same house... but pay 50% more for it (total, not monthly payment).
wdr1 4y ago
> by creating loans 18-year olds can't default on But you can default on them. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/busting-myths-about-bankruptcy-and-private-student-loans/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/busting-myths-... "For too long, a myth has persisted that student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. The myth is not true because, in fact, student loans can be discharged bankruptcy. We have seen the Department of Education take important steps to ensure that bankruptcy relief is available to federal student loan borrowers. "

tomohawk 4y ago

enraged_camel 4y ago
This is genuinely one of the funniest comments I’ve read on HN.
metadat 4y ago
So much judgement against kids who sought an education. I'm curious, how do you feel about politicians such as Marjorie Taylor Greene getting her $183,504 USD PPP loan forgiven? She also happens to be vehemently and vocally opposed to student loan debt forgiveness. Another one mentioned in the link below, Vern Buchanan, took $2.3 million in PPP covid loan forgiveness. He's also opposed to student loan forgiveness. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/white-house-shines-light-republicans-are-criticizing-student-debt-canc-rcna44904 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/white-house-shi... How does any of this make sense? Are we, in the USA, collectively just a bunch of selfish jerks who can't see past our own noses? The lack of empathy may not be surprising at this point, but it is embarrassing and arguably immoral and inexcusable.
- dudul 4y ago
  Where is the empathy for the ones who worked hard and made sacrifices to pay off their loan? Where is the empathy for the ones who passed on a college education because they didn't think they would be able to pay off the loan? As for the politicians you bring up, ok it's infuriating now what? 2 wrongs don't make a right.
  - gurchik 4y ago
    > Where is the empathy for the ones who passed on a college education because they didn't think they would be able to pay off the loan? I don't understand. No matter what kind of reform is done (making college cheaper, or forgiving loans, or any other solution) it will still be the case that some people in the past couldn't go to college because it was too expensive back then. So we can never change anything?

afiori 4y ago

You might like this classic: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/06/06/against-tulip-subsidies/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/06/06/against-tulip-subsidie...