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There is a great deal of evidence, philosophically and rationally, for the existence of God. The Big Bang, first theorized by theoretical physicist and Catholi

by judah 4y ago

There is a great deal of evidence, philosophically and rationally, for the existence of God. The Big Bang, first theorized by theoretical physicist and Catholic priest Georges Lamaitre, states the universe sprang into existence 13.7b years ago; it was not eternal as previously thought. And we know from observation that everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence. This suggests that the universe was caused. Since the universe can't cause itself, its cause must be outside of the universe. It must be immaterial; not made up of the stuff of the universe. It must be timeless and not governed by the laws of the universe. And it must be exceedingly powerful to create all the energy that kicked off the expanding universe with its billions of spinning galaxies, stars, and planets. A powerful, immaterial, timeless force outside of the universet that caused the universe to exist. This points to God.

al_mandi 4y ago
I think you're responding to the wrong poster, I accept that God exists :-)
michaelmrose 4y ago
This is just a big bag of bad logic. It's going from their may be other factors beyond our present understanding of physics to their must be a being with volition. It's like seeing the massive complexity of a hurricane and from that deducing that Zeus must exist and demands a goat on a certain Thursday every year to avoid him blowing your crops away. There is every reason to believe our present theories are presently insufficient because this is a very hard topic and no reason to believe that the universe is caused by something immaterial or timeless much less something with volition and purpose. There are multiple theories that you could read about if you wish that require neither cause nor volition.
Zizizizz 4y ago
The kalam is not a good argument https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDr3EnciHjw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDr3EnciHjw
eis 4y ago
This reasoning does not hold up. Science does not claim the universe needs a cause to come into existance. Your premise is already wrong. Science tries to come up with explanations for the observed reality in our universe. It does not claim to know what is outside the observable universe or what laws of physics exist or don't exist there. You follow the extremely common logical fallacy that because you want there to be a reason for the universe and you wanting there to be something before the universe then that means there has to be a god? A big leap based on unproven assumptions. Who says time does not extend outside the universe? Where's the proof that a universe can't cause itself? Why can't it be governed by the same laws? Science does not claim to have all the answers but just then jumping to the conclusion that there has to be a god? Nah. What if there indeed was a God but is now gone? What makes you assume that he cares about us and our morals? What would he think of people that claim he has spoken to them? Why would he create all the sickness and pain in the world? Would it mean there's some extremely sick and perverted being out there that just likes to watch innocent women being raped? Clearly he could prevent that. But then again why do religions assume that their god is good willing? Clearly he can't be that with all the shit going on because if he willed it into existance then all that is on him.
- judah 4y ago
  > "Where's the proof that a universe can't cause itself" What we observe in nature. Everything in nature that begins to exist was caused by something else. (Some have suggested quantum exceptions to this rule, but even those claims are tenuous at best.) The best observable evidence we have is that everything that begins to exist must be caused. While atheist philosophers like Bertrand Russel once believed the universe was eternal -- and therefore didn't need to be caused -- it was the Big Bang theory that proved otherwise. The universe had a beginning, therefore it has a cause. My conviction, then, is that God really does exist, and the he caused the universe to exist. > "Clearly he could prevent that...clearly he can't be [good] with all the shit going on" You're entering territory that philosophers and theologians have been discussing for millenia. I won't pretend to have the real answer for you, but one answer I've found reasonable is that if God prevents evil, He also prevents free choice; free will. It is better to exist in a world with free will -- even if it means some people abuse that for evil -- than to exist in a world where free will doesn't exist. On the same theme of evil and suffering, what is more problematic is if God doesn't exist, then evil is subjective. Only if God exists and right from wrong are legislated by God do we have a grounded morality, one where we can definitely say what is good and what is evil.
0134340 4y ago
>A powerful, immaterial, timeless force outside of the universet that caused the universe to exist. This points to God. Holy leap of faith, batman, such a non-sequitur. The former I'd agree is plausible but then you just go headlong into a big assumption or in your case, ironically and paradoxically, you state it as a certainty in a thread about our uncertain universal beginnings. I could run with the former in that perhaps some kind of force outside it caused it but what caused that force? Also there is nothing pointing to this force being some intelligent anthropomorphic entity aware of our existence (as generally believed) other than a few religious texts that, some argue, spawned from other polytheistic religious texts that had entirely different views of the gods. >There is a great deal of evidence, philosophically and rationally, for the existence of God. And evidence against if you really want to learn about philosophy in a more well-rounded way. And "rationally"? Many views can be rational which can be pretty subjective, just not logical or true.
melagonster 4y ago
why you think this should be your god or gods? I don't want to attack you， just I have my religion, too. so when every time, I found same argument, I just confused at how this can connect to some specific object.
wruza 4y ago
And we know from observation that everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence. We actually never observed everything, cause there is a great shadow far in the past. We just launched yet another space telescope to look a little farther, btw. This suggests that the universe was caused. ... A powerful, immaterial, timeless force outside of the universet that caused the universe to exist. This points to God. Or to a multi-dimensional coffee machine which farts universes as a side product every multi-morning and its owner doesn't even know that. It doesn't point to anything and even less so to a conscious creator who decides where "you" go after your brain runs low on oxygen for a while.

by judah 4y ago

al_mandi 4y ago

I think you're responding to the wrong poster, I accept that God exists :-)

michaelmrose 4y ago

This is just a big bag of bad logic. It's going from their may be other factors beyond our present understanding of physics to their must be a being with volition. It's like seeing the massive complexity of a hurricane and from that deducing that Zeus must exist and demands a goat on a certain Thursday every year to avoid him blowing your crops away. There is every reason to believe our present theories are presently insufficient because this is a very hard topic and no reason to believe that the universe is caused by something immaterial or timeless much less something with volition and purpose. There are multiple theories that you could read about if you wish that require neither cause nor volition.

Zizizizz 4y ago

The kalam is not a good argument https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDr3EnciHjw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDr3EnciHjw

eis 4y ago

This reasoning does not hold up. Science does not claim the universe needs a cause to come into existance. Your premise is already wrong. Science tries to come up with explanations for the observed reality in our universe. It does not claim to know what is outside the observable universe or what laws of physics exist or don't exist there. You follow the extremely common logical fallacy that because you want there to be a reason for the universe and you wanting there to be something before the universe then that means there has to be a god? A big leap based on unproven assumptions. Who says time does not extend outside the universe? Where's the proof that a universe can't cause itself? Why can't it be governed by the same laws? Science does not claim to have all the answers but just then jumping to the conclusion that there has to be a god? Nah. What if there indeed was a God but is now gone? What makes you assume that he cares about us and our morals? What would he think of people that claim he has spoken to them? Why would he create all the sickness and pain in the world? Would it mean there's some extremely sick and perverted being out there that just likes to watch innocent women being raped? Clearly he could prevent that. But then again why do religions assume that their god is good willing? Clearly he can't be that with all the shit going on because if he willed it into existance then all that is on him.

judah 4y ago
> "Where's the proof that a universe can't cause itself" What we observe in nature. Everything in nature that begins to exist was caused by something else. (Some have suggested quantum exceptions to this rule, but even those claims are tenuous at best.) The best observable evidence we have is that everything that begins to exist must be caused. While atheist philosophers like Bertrand Russel once believed the universe was eternal -- and therefore didn't need to be caused -- it was the Big Bang theory that proved otherwise. The universe had a beginning, therefore it has a cause. My conviction, then, is that God really does exist, and the he caused the universe to exist. > "Clearly he could prevent that...clearly he can't be [good] with all the shit going on" You're entering territory that philosophers and theologians have been discussing for millenia. I won't pretend to have the real answer for you, but one answer I've found reasonable is that if God prevents evil, He also prevents free choice; free will. It is better to exist in a world with free will -- even if it means some people abuse that for evil -- than to exist in a world where free will doesn't exist. On the same theme of evil and suffering, what is more problematic is if God doesn't exist, then evil is subjective. Only if God exists and right from wrong are legislated by God do we have a grounded morality, one where we can definitely say what is good and what is evil.

0134340 4y ago

>A powerful, immaterial, timeless force outside of the universet that caused the universe to exist. This points to God. Holy leap of faith, batman, such a non-sequitur. The former I'd agree is plausible but then you just go headlong into a big assumption or in your case, ironically and paradoxically, you state it as a certainty in a thread about our uncertain universal beginnings. I could run with the former in that perhaps some kind of force outside it caused it but what caused that force? Also there is nothing pointing to this force being some intelligent anthropomorphic entity aware of our existence (as generally believed) other than a few religious texts that, some argue, spawned from other polytheistic religious texts that had entirely different views of the gods. >There is a great deal of evidence, philosophically and rationally, for the existence of God. And evidence against if you really want to learn about philosophy in a more well-rounded way. And "rationally"? Many views can be rational which can be pretty subjective, just not logical or true.

melagonster 4y ago

why you think this should be your god or gods? I don't want to attack you， just I have my religion, too. so when every time, I found same argument, I just confused at how this can connect to some specific object.

wruza 4y ago

And we know from observation that everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence. We actually never observed everything, cause there is a great shadow far in the past. We just launched yet another space telescope to look a little farther, btw. This suggests that the universe was caused. ... A powerful, immaterial, timeless force outside of the universet that caused the universe to exist. This points to God. Or to a multi-dimensional coffee machine which farts universes as a side product every multi-morning and its owner doesn't even know that. It doesn't point to anything and even less so to a conscious creator who decides where "you" go after your brain runs low on oxygen for a while.