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I dont think we can get there. First, we would need to solve time. I am not sure if we are able to grasp it. Then we must figure out what happened at T-1 or T

I dont think we can get there. First, we would need to solve time. I am not sure if we are able to grasp it. Then we must figure out what happened at T-1 or T-2, which I think will be simple once we understand time. The theory creates a start and then explains the progress from there. but not what caused it. In theory of the cylinder than the universe travels to that is good but it does not explain how everything came to be. We have a simple to state problem. There was nothing, then there was something. Much like in Genesis ""And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."" Instead: Science says there was a big bang and from that everything was created. and we have figured out a model to explain (most) of the evolution since the big bang. Which means we can say no god did it. But the way the story begins is in my opinion quite similar. In one version god is used to explain what created us. Which then leads to the question of who created god and to answer that we need to figure out time. (I am aware that there are equations that explain what was at t-1 or explain that there was nothing and even asking the question of what was at t-1 is crazy. I do not have the background that could allow me to understand the equations, but every which way you do it you end up with a question of what started it, or what was before what was the trigger to get it going. Perhaps you can say that the universe has always been there, forever, sometimes it shrinks sometimes it expands, and we have a nice perpetuum mobile.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Why does there have to be time before The Big Bang? IIUC, the hypothesis is that everything was packed into one super-dense black hole. Wouldn't there not be any time?
- flatiron 4y ago
  The way we currently view time there was no time before the Big Bang. No space = no time
- ThinkBeat 4y ago
  However, you play around with words the same question always remains what was before. Where did this super dense black hole come from? What caused it to be? What was it before it was a black hole? Our current theories for the origin of black holes as far as I know does not include the spontaneous appearance of a black hole for no reaosn.
  - eis 4y ago
    > However, you play around with words the same question always remains what was before. > Where did this super dense black hole come from? What caused it to be? What was it before it was a black hole? These theories are just that - thought experiments to try to come up with possible explanations. They are not claimed as proven or facts. There are a lot of open equestions. It is work in progress. > Our current theories for the origin of black holes as far as I know does not include the spontaneous appearance of a black hole for no reaosn. There are actually theories that black holes can form spontaneously. This is because particles are theorized to be able to spontaneously form and under the right circumstances they'd form a black hole. They would most likely though evaporate nearly instantly. But again that is not proven.
conviencefee999 4y ago
Please stop construing your religious beliefs with sciences. Sometimes the answer is simply we do not know.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  The story's title isn't explicit about the means by which the knowledge is gained, nor exactly which details are being sought. I think it's a mistake to treat the scientific method as the only plausible source of knowledge. My opinion is obviously based on a particular worldview, but so is a claim that the only useful source of knowledge is the scientific method.
- me_me_me 4y ago
  the god of gaps is more and more god of cracks
jahnu 4y ago
> We have a simple to state problem. There was nothing, then there was something. Natural language is woefully inadequate to express these issues, but believe it is a mistake to state the problem like this. There can be no concept of “before” if there is a T0. Perhaps the “why is there something rather than nothing?” version comes closer to what we are asking.
- hprotagonist 4y ago
  to which the current best though unsatisfactory answer is “because!”
  - Ralfp 4y ago
    Hawking’s history of time actually anwsers this question with „we don’t know and don’t have any information from before big bang we can access to use in research”.
    - ThinkBeat 4y ago
      which means that science then states that T-1 "We have absolutely noe clue and we will never have one" So a spaghetti god monster could have created it? It could but you would never be able to prove it.
      - eis 4y ago
        Not quite. There is still the possibility that at some point in the future we will be able to figure it out unless it can be proven that it is impossible. The only observation is that currently we don't know. Could it be the spaghetti god monster? Maybe. Maybe not. We simply can't tell at the moment. There are things we don't know the answer to. We just have to keep looking.
treeman79 4y ago
Watching tons of PBS Spacetime the only theories oI see is that Universes are constantly being created with different properties, with an externally rare one having the right conditions for life to be possible. Still leaves the same questions as to why a bunch of universes are being created or where the energy comes from. End of day there isn’t anything I’ve seen other then a true all powerful God or equivalent being responsible.
- jondeval 4y ago
  I sense you just expressing your view on the matter, but I think that this is a very weak argument for God's existence. It's completely plausible that we will at some point in the future have good materialist explanations for the existence of energy or the size of the multiverse etc.
me_me_me 4y ago
Unlike in Genesis, the light was not created before sun. Grafting god onto science by cherry picking things that were guessed while throwing away all the incorrect statements is a bit disingenuous, no?
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  Is this satire? Or are you literally being so literal?
- tzs 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_epoch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_epoch That was around 9 billion years before the Sun.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

Why does there have to be time before The Big Bang? IIUC, the hypothesis is that everything was packed into one super-dense black hole. Wouldn't there not be any time?

flatiron 4y ago
The way we currently view time there was no time before the Big Bang. No space = no time
ThinkBeat 4y ago
However, you play around with words the same question always remains what was before. Where did this super dense black hole come from? What caused it to be? What was it before it was a black hole? Our current theories for the origin of black holes as far as I know does not include the spontaneous appearance of a black hole for no reaosn.
- eis 4y ago
  > However, you play around with words the same question always remains what was before. > Where did this super dense black hole come from? What caused it to be? What was it before it was a black hole? These theories are just that - thought experiments to try to come up with possible explanations. They are not claimed as proven or facts. There are a lot of open equestions. It is work in progress. > Our current theories for the origin of black holes as far as I know does not include the spontaneous appearance of a black hole for no reaosn. There are actually theories that black holes can form spontaneously. This is because particles are theorized to be able to spontaneously form and under the right circumstances they'd form a black hole. They would most likely though evaporate nearly instantly. But again that is not proven.

conviencefee999 4y ago

Please stop construing your religious beliefs with sciences. Sometimes the answer is simply we do not know.

CoastalCoder 4y ago
The story's title isn't explicit about the means by which the knowledge is gained, nor exactly which details are being sought. I think it's a mistake to treat the scientific method as the only plausible source of knowledge. My opinion is obviously based on a particular worldview, but so is a claim that the only useful source of knowledge is the scientific method.
me_me_me 4y ago
the god of gaps is more and more god of cracks

jahnu 4y ago

> We have a simple to state problem. There was nothing, then there was something. Natural language is woefully inadequate to express these issues, but believe it is a mistake to state the problem like this. There can be no concept of “before” if there is a T0. Perhaps the “why is there something rather than nothing?” version comes closer to what we are asking.

hprotagonist 4y ago
to which the current best though unsatisfactory answer is “because!”
- Ralfp 4y ago
  Hawking’s history of time actually anwsers this question with „we don’t know and don’t have any information from before big bang we can access to use in research”.
  - ThinkBeat 4y ago
    which means that science then states that T-1 "We have absolutely noe clue and we will never have one" So a spaghetti god monster could have created it? It could but you would never be able to prove it.
    - eis 4y ago
      Not quite. There is still the possibility that at some point in the future we will be able to figure it out unless it can be proven that it is impossible. The only observation is that currently we don't know. Could it be the spaghetti god monster? Maybe. Maybe not. We simply can't tell at the moment. There are things we don't know the answer to. We just have to keep looking.

treeman79 4y ago

Watching tons of PBS Spacetime the only theories oI see is that Universes are constantly being created with different properties, with an externally rare one having the right conditions for life to be possible. Still leaves the same questions as to why a bunch of universes are being created or where the energy comes from. End of day there isn’t anything I’ve seen other then a true all powerful God or equivalent being responsible.

jondeval 4y ago
I sense you just expressing your view on the matter, but I think that this is a very weak argument for God's existence. It's completely plausible that we will at some point in the future have good materialist explanations for the existence of energy or the size of the multiverse etc.

me_me_me 4y ago

Unlike in Genesis, the light was not created before sun. Grafting god onto science by cherry picking things that were guessed while throwing away all the incorrect statements is a bit disingenuous, no?

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
Is this satire? Or are you literally being so literal?
tzs 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_epoch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_epoch That was around 9 billion years before the Sun.