5 ms·

More insulation is double edge sword. I moved into a super-energy-efficient house here in north/east Europe. Heating in winter is damn cheap. But retention work

by mantas 4y ago

More insulation is double edge sword. I moved into a super-energy-efficient house here in north/east Europe. Heating in winter is damn cheap. But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner :( And electrical ventilation is a must all year round to get air fresh, keep module at bay ant not loose energy living with open windows. Energy saving in bottom line will be abysmal :(

goodpoint 4y ago
> But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner It's the opposite. Insulation protects you from heat as well. That's why refrigerators are very much insulated.
- mantas 4y ago
  Insulation protects only so long till it heats up. Then it keeps the heat inside.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    No, that's just thermal mass and it's zero-sum. That's why you need aircon. Removing insulation doesn't magically make your home cooler.
    - mantas 4y ago
      Removing insulation means house cools down fast once sun goes down. Which is important for sleeping. While there're myriad of ways to handle heat during the day.
badpun 4y ago
That house would be much worse without the insulation. That's why it's unbearably hot in summer in say a shack made of out sheet metal (such shack would be much more bearable if it was insulated).
- mantas 4y ago
  Metal shack would be worse in the middle of the day. Insulated house retains heat at night. Spending day outside is an option, spending a night is much worse.
  - badpun 4y ago
    During the night, you can... open windows and create draft? Unless the night is very hot, it should be enough to bring temperature inside down to manageable levels.
    - mantas 4y ago
      Long summer days up here mean that evenings stay hot. So „managable level“ is in the middle of the night at best. Obviously solution could be go to bed after midnight and then sleep in :)
foepys 4y ago
You should leave the windows open at night to let the cooler air in and cool the insulation from the inside. Once you let the heat inside by opening windows in the heat, you have lost, that's true.
- mantas 4y ago
  I did that last year. But it doesn't cool down enough in the evening to sleep comfortably.
welterde 4y ago
The key is not to let the heat in in the first place during the summer. Thick external shutters do wonders in that regard. Well insulated windows alone will let in the heat (in form of light) but not out again (IR). I really wonder why these shutters are not way more common than they are.
- mantas 4y ago
  Yes. But those shutters are pretty expensive + extra moving thing to maintain.
guerby 4y ago
You're probably missing thermal mass in the house. Comes with bio-sourced insulating material, but usually not with rock/glass whool or polystyrene & the like.
- mantas 4y ago
  Thermal mass doesn't help if it's hot for a days. Then it just keeps the heat. In winter, the house works great to retain heat. But as I learned during construction when I had to prepare for laying flooring, it took a while to heat it up.
  - guerby 4y ago
    A few ressources on how to use thermal mass and diurnal/nocturnal temperature gap to handle summer heat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_mass#Thermal_mass_for_limiting_summertime_overheating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_mass#Thermal_mass_for_... https://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design/thermal-mass https://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design/thermal-mass
    - mantas 4y ago
      My personal dream is house built into a slope. So earth around half-ish of the house can be used as thermal mass all year round. Currently roof becomes heated. And there's crapton of insulation in the attic. Which heats up during the day in sunlight.. And then takes it's sweet time to cool down at night. And, if heat lasts several days, it doesn't even cool down by the morning. Another solution would be a full-sized attic like in old houses. Now we didn't even bother to install crawl doors, because there's next-to-no space. Insulation takes up whatever is there. But large attic would be inefficient in winter. Unless we'd double-insulate it to keep heat in living quarters. But I wonder how long it'd take to recoup €€€€ and kwh/co2/etc spent for extra building materials/work wit lower energy usage.

by mantas 4y ago

goodpoint 4y ago

> But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner It's the opposite. Insulation protects you from heat as well. That's why refrigerators are very much insulated.

mantas 4y ago
Insulation protects only so long till it heats up. Then it keeps the heat inside.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  No, that's just thermal mass and it's zero-sum. That's why you need aircon. Removing insulation doesn't magically make your home cooler.
  - mantas 4y ago
    Removing insulation means house cools down fast once sun goes down. Which is important for sleeping. While there're myriad of ways to handle heat during the day.

badpun 4y ago

That house would be much worse without the insulation. That's why it's unbearably hot in summer in say a shack made of out sheet metal (such shack would be much more bearable if it was insulated).

mantas 4y ago
Metal shack would be worse in the middle of the day. Insulated house retains heat at night. Spending day outside is an option, spending a night is much worse.
- badpun 4y ago
  During the night, you can... open windows and create draft? Unless the night is very hot, it should be enough to bring temperature inside down to manageable levels.
  - mantas 4y ago
    Long summer days up here mean that evenings stay hot. So „managable level“ is in the middle of the night at best. Obviously solution could be go to bed after midnight and then sleep in :)

foepys 4y ago

You should leave the windows open at night to let the cooler air in and cool the insulation from the inside. Once you let the heat inside by opening windows in the heat, you have lost, that's true.

mantas 4y ago
I did that last year. But it doesn't cool down enough in the evening to sleep comfortably.

welterde 4y ago

The key is not to let the heat in in the first place during the summer. Thick external shutters do wonders in that regard. Well insulated windows alone will let in the heat (in form of light) but not out again (IR). I really wonder why these shutters are not way more common than they are.

mantas 4y ago
Yes. But those shutters are pretty expensive + extra moving thing to maintain.

guerby 4y ago

You're probably missing thermal mass in the house. Comes with bio-sourced insulating material, but usually not with rock/glass whool or polystyrene & the like.

mantas 4y ago
Thermal mass doesn't help if it's hot for a days. Then it just keeps the heat. In winter, the house works great to retain heat. But as I learned during construction when I had to prepare for laying flooring, it took a while to heat it up.
- guerby 4y ago
  A few ressources on how to use thermal mass and diurnal/nocturnal temperature gap to handle summer heat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_mass#Thermal_mass_for_limiting_summertime_overheating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_mass#Thermal_mass_for_... https://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design/thermal-mass https://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design/thermal-mass
  - mantas 4y ago
    My personal dream is house built into a slope. So earth around half-ish of the house can be used as thermal mass all year round. Currently roof becomes heated. And there's crapton of insulation in the attic. Which heats up during the day in sunlight.. And then takes it's sweet time to cool down at night. And, if heat lasts several days, it doesn't even cool down by the morning. Another solution would be a full-sized attic like in old houses. Now we didn't even bother to install crawl doors, because there's next-to-no space. Insulation takes up whatever is there. But large attic would be inefficient in winter. Unless we'd double-insulate it to keep heat in living quarters. But I wonder how long it'd take to recoup €€€€ and kwh/co2/etc spent for extra building materials/work wit lower energy usage.