4 ms·

By “producers” of course you mean “those producers that invested in sovereign energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, …)” Sounds like good investments are paying

by tomp 4y ago

By “producers” of course you mean “those producers that invested in sovereign energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, …)” Sounds like good investments are paying off, and bad investments (Germany collaborating with Putin despite Trump’s prescient advice & mockery) are not. Capitalism at it’s finest! Too bad average people are paying the price, but in democracy, that’s literally what they voted for (non-sensical top-down EU bureaucratic green energy mandates, instead of investments into better tech & bottom-up sovereign energy investments).

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
I’m not sure what you are trying to say. The reasons for the energy prices have nothing to do with any European bureaucracy. If anything more investments into green energy would have put us into a better position.
- google234123 4y ago
  The European bureaucracy is what dismantled all the old cheap energy production and forced massive investment and massive subsidies in renewable energy that can't actually cope with the real load.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Isn't the inability of nuclear plants to keep production up part of the problem? If anything, the screwed up electricity markets in Germany killed oil and gas plants by favoring flexible production costs. And there it is solar/eind followed by hydro and coal on third. Germany even built new coal plants, the latest of which didn't get a legal construction permit and thus operations oermit in the first place. Bad environmentalists, paid by Putin to push for any energy source other than gas for electricity!
  - the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
    The drivers of high prices are broken nuclear power plants, high gas prices due to a war and record draughts causing issues for hydro. None of these are caused by European bureaucracy.
hef19898 4y ago
To use your words, Germany already collaborated with the good old old communist USSR under Brechnev. Thing is, so, Germany isn't using Russian gas (which was delivered reliably since the 60s) to produce electricity but for heating, industry and chemicals. Funny, I remember when we had similar discussions about negative electricity prices and people mockes those capital intensive legacy producers. Well, history is so old and context too complex to bother if polemism does as well.

by tomp 4y ago

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago

I’m not sure what you are trying to say. The reasons for the energy prices have nothing to do with any European bureaucracy. If anything more investments into green energy would have put us into a better position.

google234123 4y ago
The European bureaucracy is what dismantled all the old cheap energy production and forced massive investment and massive subsidies in renewable energy that can't actually cope with the real load.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Isn't the inability of nuclear plants to keep production up part of the problem? If anything, the screwed up electricity markets in Germany killed oil and gas plants by favoring flexible production costs. And there it is solar/eind followed by hydro and coal on third. Germany even built new coal plants, the latest of which didn't get a legal construction permit and thus operations oermit in the first place. Bad environmentalists, paid by Putin to push for any energy source other than gas for electricity!
- the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
  The drivers of high prices are broken nuclear power plants, high gas prices due to a war and record draughts causing issues for hydro. None of these are caused by European bureaucracy.

hef19898 4y ago

To use your words, Germany already collaborated with the good old old communist USSR under Brechnev. Thing is, so, Germany isn't using Russian gas (which was delivered reliably since the 60s) to produce electricity but for heating, industry and chemicals. Funny, I remember when we had similar discussions about negative electricity prices and people mockes those capital intensive legacy producers. Well, history is so old and context too complex to bother if polemism does as well.