6 ms·
Ask Sen. Wyden to read your name during his Protect IP filibuster
- filiwickers 15y agoThis is very important and a great use of a filibuster. Help Senator Wyden to stop this bill!
- trusche 15y agoAgreed. I added my name even though it is very unlikely to get this far. But on the off chance that he'll actually be required to take the floor, I'll be watching C-SPAN.
- grandpa 15y agoAs a non American, this confuses me. If I've understood it correctly, a filibuster is a way to suspend the normal democratic process when you don't like the way a vote is likely to turn out. I just can't find a way to think of that as a good thing. Am I missing something? Why do people like filibusters?
- Jwsonic 15y agoI'm an American and I've never understood this either. It's been around since the start of our democratic process, but these days it just seems like a counterproductive tactic.
- chc 15y agoIt's weird and kind of annoying, but it's the only real counter against somebody ramming a bill through Congress. Having a perfect Congress would be more optimal, but you know, you make laws with the legislators you have, not the legislators you wish you had.
- trusche 15y agoIn principle, you are right, a filibuster seems to run counter to democratic principles. However, given the realities of how Congress works, I personally have no trouble using the instruments available to stop the even more undemocratic influence of money in politics, which IMO is what this whole process is all about.
- tansey 15y agoThe power of a filibuster is that it forces the opposition to experience pain, slowdown, and increased public scrutiny. It prevents bills from being passed quickly and silently. However, it's a risky move on the part of the filibustering senator, as continued use will cause the lawmaking process to grind to a halt and potentially cost you the next election. It's thus only wise to use it sparingly and when the public is clearly on your side.
- noahc 15y agoThis isn't necessarily true. The senate has a 'two-track' system that allows them to move on and address other issues where they have two bills on the floor at the same time.
- pnathan 15y agoIt can be thought of as a tactical nuclear option. You don't want to do it, but in critical situations where the passage of the law needs to be halted for a time for debate and backroom wheeling and dealing.... A filibuster calls scrutiny on the law in progress and being able to run a filibuster signifies strong support.
- tedunangst 15y agoActually, the nuclear option has for some time been used to describe eliminating the filibuster, and was actually partially triggered recently. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/186133-reid-triggers-nuclear-option-to-change-senate-rules-and-prohibit-post-cloture-filibusters http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/186133-reid-triggers-nucl...
- noahc 15y agoThe Senate is seen as the place for reason to hold over the demands of the common people. In other words, the senate is more conservative (in the Burke not Reagan sense). What the filibuster does is makes America more conservative by requiring a super majority (60%). New laws by very nature are liberal (in the Burke, not Reagan sense again) and this is why conservatives tend to like it. The major benefit of it is that it prevents (in it's present day form) small majorities from passing important legislation. You need at least 60% in the Senate.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago"New laws by very nature are liberal." I sense that this was said without the slightest hint of irony.
- sp332 15y agoGP meant conservative in the "don't rock the boat" sense, which is very confusing and misleading in the context of politics where the word "conservative" generally means something else.
- noahc 15y agoIs there a better way of explaining it? I thought Burke and Reagan were good examples.
- sp332 15y agoYou might say "progressive" or "reform" politics instead of "liberal".
- InclinedPlane 15y agoSure, I get that. The irony I see is that in the same breath he ties "new laws" to an increase in liberalism. Which is either a gross misestimation of the nature of most new laws or a gross perversion of the very idea of a "liberal" society. More so if we take the more classic meaning of the term (in the Locke, not Clinton sense).
- InclinedPlane 15y agoA filibuster can be used to block legislation that only has a bare majority of support in the Senate. If legislation has the support of more than 60 senators then no filibuster can stop it. It can be a good thing in that it raises the bar for passing legislation and protects minority but still popular opinions.
- adestefan 15y agoYou have to remember that the framers of the US Constitution were terrified by tyranny of the majority, where majority can be defined as a majority of the people or a majority of the States. The House of Representatives was devised to be the majority for the people while the Senate was devised to be the majority for the States. This was done so the Senate could put the brakes on the House ramming through what the majority of people wanted, while the House could stop the Senate from jamming through what a majority of the States wanted. Because of this dynamic the Senate is usually seen as the body that is more careful and deliberate in their business. Keep in mind the Senate was not elected by direct vote until the 17th Amendment was ratified in 1913. Instead it was up to each State to select their two Senators and was never meant to be a democratic body.
- tomjen3 15y agoIf I remember correctly the filibuster is a way for a very large minority to protect itself from the (potentially just above 50%) majority. In other words it is undemocratic in the same way the admemdments to the constitution which protects the individual/minority against the tyranny of the majority. The founding fathers were very, very, very well educated so they pretty much found all the ways liberty had been subverted throughout history from Greece through the Roman Republic (the Romans themselves were extreemly paranoid about one person holding power) and its fall into the Roman Empire, all the ways the kings of England had subverted the people liberty (fun fact, you can plead the fifth, have a the right to speedy and public trial, etc as a way to prevent another Star Chamber). In summary, yes it is undemocratic. But democracy is potentially at odds with liberty and freedom. And the Founding Fathers backed liberty over democracy.
- m_myers 15y agoWatch the movie Mr. Smith goes to Washington for an example of a filibuster in action (and to see a great movie, too). James Stewart as a freshman senator holds the floor to try to stop a political machine's crooked scheme. It's a Frank Capra movie, so take it with a grain of salt. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031679/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031679/
- neutronicus 15y agoIt seems like you know about filibusters, but not about Cloture. A filibuster can be ended if a 60% supermajority of the senate votes for Cloture. Basically, what the filibuster does is prevent the passage of any bill that 41-49% of the senate really, really does not want passed. People like it because it makes the distinction between having a majority (51% of the Senate) and a mandate (60% of the Senate).
- gcb 15y agoHow effective is this tactic? i don't know how i would feel if someone stand up to speak against some law i sympathize (eg reduction of political benefits) and waste days reading cookbooks just to fuck everything up.
- suivix 15y agoI don't click on links like this one. Usually they are heavily biased in one direction and aren't worth reading.
- trusche 15y agoThen you shouldn't comment on it and thereby make it more popular. But in all seriousness, of course there is a bias here. That's not a bad thing by itself. If you never read biased articles, I have to wonder how you form an opinion on anything. No offense intended, but all you've just said is that you have a prejudice against something you admitted to not reading.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- NHQ 15y agocrowdbusting congress. i like it. edit: call it a wikifilibuster
- eli 15y agoUnless something really exceptional takes place, it isn't necessary to literally hold the floor and read names (or anything else) in order to filibuster. There is effectively a gentleman's agreement that if there's the intent to filibuster, it's as good as doing the deed.
- roc 15y agoWhich is a large part of why it's become overused.
- haakon 15y agoThey've made it neat and painless, so neat and painless that they've had no reason to stop it.
- rdl 15y agohttp://dauntlessmedia.net/startrek/123-a-taste-of-armageddon http://dauntlessmedia.net/startrek/123-a-taste-of-armageddon
- corin_ 15y agoHim actually doing it, and reading a list of names of people who support him, turns standard process into publicity.
- eli 15y agoBut there's no need or opportunity. The bill has a hold on it, so it will probably not come up for vote.
- justindz 15y agoIf only they'd let you sign up for these things for only the immediate purpose and not be sent other "important campaign" emails. I would be cool with someone reading and trying to pronounce my name (incidentally, failing miserably) as part of a filibuster here. But I wouldn't want a single other email beyond that point.
- geoffschmidt 15y agoIf you're a campaign manager, the reason you run a "sign my petition" appeal like this is usually to build up a mailing list, not because you think anyone with power will actually care much about your petition. Petitions are cheap. Then you execute step two, where you leverage that list to get people to do things that you think will actually affect the issue, like making phone calls (to legislators or to voters) or sending in money for media buys. It is true that getting all that email is irritating. But if you're the average busy citizen, the best way to help is to find a group of organizers you trust, get on their list, and then do the little bite-sized things they ask you to do.
- zheng 15y agoThis is an honest question that I realize will seem very tin-foil hatty, but I can't seem to brush it off. Does anyone ever worry that doing something like this (supplying your name, email, etc.) will come back to bite you later? Say, in 15 years if the American government by some twist outlaws decent. Does anyone worry that you might be persecuted?
- chrischen 15y agoWell if they outlaw dissent I'm sure you'd have bigger problems to worry about than this.
- georgemcbay 15y agoIf things ever get to the point where the US Government is actively rounding up people for having their name on a list because they oppose "Protect IP", I like to think I will be too busy actively revolting to worry about my name being on this list. And I'm a tree-hugging, liberal hippie.
- geoffschmidt 15y agoNo. So many people have signed so many petitions, and the people who organize the petition drivers are often tricky, so the average person isn't quite sure what they signed up for. And many people sign petitions because their friends (or a hot girl outside the grocery store, or..) asked them to. I would only worry if I planned to run for public office, and didn't plan to stand by my current beliefs. Organizing an effort like this, yes. But mostly because it shows that you are an activist and can make things happen when you don't like the status quo. And I think the benefits of developing that reputation outweigh the drawbacks.
- zheng 15y agoThanks. All the answers have been helpful, this one is perhaps the most pragmatic. I've signed as well, I suppose it wouldn't really matter in any case, as if the US was headed down that path I think I'd just jump ship.
- rosser 15y ago
- AndrewWarner 15y agoOh, I've done interviews about pages like this. Politicians use them to collect email addresses. I don't think they have to operate under the same anti-spam rules as the rest of us. So they use big issues like this to harvest emails.
- dsl 15y agoYou should read up on what DemandProgress.org is (they are the group behind this site), before making such claims. http://blog.demandprogress.org/mission/ http://blog.demandprogress.org/mission/