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UK energy bills are soaring to record highs
- halotrope 4y agoWhy is electricity spiking in Europe? Is this compensation for Gas being scarce due to the war?
- jl6 4y agoA lot of electricity is generated by gas.
- bsaul 4y ago10% to 20% only in europe. However, because of the super bizarre pricing mechanism of the electricity market in Europe, the market price is automatically set to the most expensive one in cases of spikes (aka: the ones producing electricity out of gaz). This was certainly created with good intentions, but the result today is that even in countries with nuclear-dominated electricity (such as france), electricity prices will soar tremendously.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoIt's basically accounting fiction. Imagine every bit of food you ate cost the same as the most expensive. The caviar goes up, and suddenly no one can afford to eat. Why don't we use less caviar and/or also suspend the stupid rule about food price? Owners of food businesses getting paid caviar prices for delivering scotch eggs. No, let's wait till some people die, because I'm getting rich.
- bsaul 4y agoI must admit, i’m super curious to understand why nobody has pushed forward the idea of breaking down that pricing mechanism. My sincere hope is that there’s a good technical reason i’m not aware of.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoIf they asked an economist, they'd say that the system is fine (you still don't want people using lots of gas and electricity made from gas when in a gas crisis) and you should just transfer the money to the people. Right wing governments really don't like that idea. See their reaction to COVID, they really heavily depend on the idea that the people with all the money 'earned it'. Much easier to blame renewables.
- stu432 4y agoPretty sure the pricing mechanism was cooked up by economists to encourage investment into renewables who will be making stonking profits right now. Unlike gas plants...
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoYes, lots of people seem really sure about a lot things they are wrong about. It's always the renewables isnt it. They kill birds and give you ear cancer and don't even really work. Not like those superb fossil fuels that have no drawbacks at all. Who wants to listen to experts when you can just create a crisis by ignoring them and then blame it on the experts you didn't listen to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_order https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_order > The historic methodology for economic dispatch was developed to manage fossil fuel burning power plants, relying on calculations involving the input/output characteristics of power stations.
- makomk 4y agoThe difference, of course, is that electricity is a commodity: every unit of electricity is essentally the same as every other unit, it's not really practical or useful to distinguish between them (they literally use the same wires), and buyers' need is satisfied by any of them. You'd be pissed off if you ordered caviar and got a scotch egg instead, but so long as the lights come on you don't think about where that particular electricity comes from. Other commodities apparently work in exactly the same way where the price is set by the highest seller, including bulk foods like wheat and rice. There's not really any obvious way to change it either; if there's someone willing to pay the higher price everyone obviously wants to sell to that buyer.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoI like the system, but it doesn't stop it being accounting fiction. We made these rules up to ensure fair prices. We can rewrite the rules if we want. Which seems relevant when people are talking about society collapsing and people freezing to death. And some people have strong financial incentives to not fix it.
- Ekaros 4y agoI wonder how many consumers would be ready to have remote-relays next to their power meters. Let's say they buy wind energy. When there is no supply from wind or there is some problem they would not get power anymore. That would be workable model.
- rr808 4y ago> market price is automatically set to the most expensive one I think you need to read your economics text books again. Yes marginal costs can impact the marginal supply of electricity, but the price is set by basic supply and demand. In a shortage if there isn't any gas, gas powered stations are off, if isn't enough electricity to go around the prices goes up until people stop buying it.
- bsaul 4y agoi double checked before posting, and what you're saying doesn't reflect what i've read regarding electricity market. FWIU, once the gaz station are active ( because of a surge in demand) the price is set to theirs for the whole electricity produced, not just the one they produce. This threshold effect is very peculiar and is very different from other markets (i assume oil extraction cost are lot different depending on where they take place, but for electricity in our current situation the cost difference are so wide that it sure makes the whole system look a bit absurd)
- rr808 4y agoNo this is the same in every commodity market. Say a bag of apples is normally a pound. If lots of orchards get destroyed and the price goes up to £3 because lots of people have to buy apples, the price at all markets will be the higher price. But incremental supplier is important by increasing supply at the higher price. Eg if it costs £1 to ship a bag of apples from Italy (and it costs £1 there), then the new price will be more like £2 as a new supplier can bring more apples. Right now there are new incremental suppliers waiting to deliver electricity so demand destruction is the only thing to stop the price going to infinity.
- bsaul 4y agowell, i don't know where you live, but apples prices are widely different in supermarket depending on where they come from... And the difference comes in great part from the cost it took to produce them (labor, regulations, transportation, etc).
- rr808 4y agohttps://app.electricitymaps.com/ https://app.electricitymaps.com/ lets you look at historical sources. In the winter last year 40% of British electricity was generated from gas.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- grnmamba 4y agoOf interest is that none of the points in the "What could be done to reduce bills?" section increase the the availability of gas. The tax cuts, support packages, price freezes, etc. will result in more money chasing the same amount of energy.
- _dain_ 4y agosubsidize demand -> prices go up -> people get angry -> subsidize demand
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoNote the similarity to housing, as people that own the land syphon off the profits.
- happymellon 4y agoAnd the UK has a lot of North Sea gas that should be used while we are in the transition away from these fossil fuels. It's been argued for years that it should happen as a short term fix for energy security, but didn't. And now we are here. Sad, but unsurprising.
- paganel 4y agoThat would have brought ESG numbers down, we wouldn’t want that. This feels like an early 1970s Soviet economic mis-investment story (when they had to import grains from the US even though they had some of the best agricultural land on the planet), curious how it will all end up.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoWe still have that gas (about 40% maybe, or maybe half of that if the other half is Norwegian). But we are paying market rates for it, which puts lots of profits in the hands of fossil fuel companies that came out of normal people's pockets. Returning it to them is the economically efficient answer.
- neilwilson 4y ago
- switch007 4y agoFor people not familiar: we have an energy 'price cap' which is kind of just a profit cap. The regulator considers wholesale prices when setting it (among other things). It was never intended to shield consumers and businesses from wholesale price movements. It makes a nice headline during this crisis, so the media is going crazy talking about it. Much of the public is complaining that it keeps going up and up as they don't understand the cap's origin nor intention. It's annoying that the mass media refuses to publish the actual unit rates and instead obsess about "average bills" (which, among other things, hides the reality of extremely high bills this coming winter)
- VBprogrammer 4y agoI find the whole energy sector a complete mystery in the UK. The same electricity comes out the sockets whether you are with British Gas or Octopus. As far as I can tell the wholesale rates are fixed and the amount charged to a customer is capped. It's not a functioning market at all. The only differentiating factors are how little overhead they can introduce in handing customers (with the advent of the internet and smart meters this is obviously low) and how well they do at avoiding loss through people who fail to pay.
- stu432 4y agoWholesale rates aren't fixed. I think you may be referring to where the government has invested a significant amount into a power station and so agrees a strike price/contract for difference setup for an agreed number of years, which were often woefully unfair to the taxpayer. Though, current prices even start to make Hinkley Point look like a good deal.
- tialaramex 4y agoThe wholesale rates are not in fact fixed, there's a wholesale electricity market. It runs in half hour blocks, there are estimates of what's available to be dispatched, and what use is expected, and the market seeks a price which will be acceptable to enough of the cheapest dispatchable producers to get approximately the desired energy, then that's what everybody is paid for the energy - it's a bit like a Dutch Auction. As well as the short term energy market, "suppliers" like Octopus also hedge by purchasing contracts to supply electricity far in advance. In fact the bulk of electricity is purchased this way, which makes that half-hour short term market look more volatile than the reality of energy trading. It also means that to be a serious player you need a lot of capital to make your purchases earlier and with better data than your competitors. The existence of numerous consumer suppliers is, indeed, pointless, it's just Tory orthodoxy which causes these to exist, you obviously don't need the suppliers since they just basically shuffle paperwork. But there really are wholesale prices, and so there really is a wholesale energy market, even if there was a single government consumer supply company, it would be buying energy from the market, at the market price. Unless you want the government to also own all the power generators, and all the other countries we are buying energy from, which I think those countries might not agree to.
- benevol 4y agoAnd yet, nobody seems to care about paradigm-shifting ways to generate energy. On the surface, nothing makes sense anymore.
- throwaway22032 4y agoI don't think that this issue is getting anywhere near the amount of attention that it needs. We're rapidly approaching the point at which the only thing that's going to work is rationing. I'd propose that we have marginal rates like income tax e.g. first X units for a household are 30p/kWh, second X units are 100p/kWh, third X units are 200p/kWh, with the aim of heavily penalising usage above what is necessary for basic needs. The bands need to be set based on analysing how much gas we can physically secure and deals need to be struck at a governmental level. Basically, wartime footing to keep homes and factories running. That might not even be enough, but the alternatives are worse; some mix of the following: - people disengage with the system (e.g. ignore the bills, riot) - millions of people end up unable to cook food or heat their home - disposable income _disappears_. not goes down, but does not exist or goes negative for 80%+ of the population The projections for early next year are that an average home will have to pay 7000 a year for energy, up from around 1000-1500 previously. It's not a matter of cutting back on luxuries, most households literally don't have that, and cutting energy use to 1/5th of their previous is impossible. For businesses it's even worse, there's no cap, some places are facing 10x increases in energy costs e.g. just stop trading, your business model is unviable until/unless costs come down.
- starkd 4y agoThe sad thing is that it doesn't have to be that way. The world is literally pursuing a path of intentional scarcity. I'm all for conservation, but the brutal truth is any vibrant economy depends on access to cheap, affordable energy.
- ClumsyPilot 4y agoNo, no! this is the price of depending on foreign powers for fossil fuels! The UK government has cost us billions by denying permission for privately funded renewable energy projects simply on the basis that they look ugly! https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-cutting-the-green-crap-has-added-2-5bn-to-uk-energy-bills/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-cutting-the-green-crap-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/25/solar-farm-plans-refused-highest-rate-five-years-great-britain https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/25/solar-fa...
- rr808 4y agoThe real issue is how the environmental cost is a real trade off now. The last few decades Europe has been closing coal mines, banned fracking, encouraged renewables over more secure but damaging sources. With Russian gas this wasn't such a big deal until it is. I think its probably a good thing overall to have the new higher prices as its just reality. One potential solution is to send troops to Libya, to sort that country out and help it export gas. I used to be horrified at thoughts like that but maybe it makes sense for everyone? Is it just something America does?
- benevol 4y agoMany of the crisis we live through are engineered, and this one is one of those. Which is why I personally will never just accept it.
- FromTheSteppe 4y agoI guess invading Libya is still a better alternative to checks note importing fuel from Iran.
- GordonS 4y agoIMO this is exactly what we should be doing. It would be a great "excuse" to re-open friendly relations with Iran, even if the Americans wouldn't like it.
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- jonatron 4y ago£0.52 per kWh. I did some napkin maths showing how it's more expensive than diesel generators: https://gist.github.com/jonatron/1a0c6398356fd8ae56d435e936391e3f https://gist.github.com/jonatron/1a0c6398356fd8ae56d435e9363...
- jcbcn 4y agoInteresting, thanks.
- zbrozek 4y agoI did similar math with similar outcome for northern California. If the grid gets unreasonably expensive, there are alternatives. I installed a bunch of solar panels because it was cheap and easy and effective.
- cauk 4y agoThis is England. The sun don’t shine.
- switch007 4y agoUgh, diesel, what an awful thought! People running noisy generators and diesel thefts etc (heating gas theft is rife in Ireland, where heating gas is common).
- ramoq 4y agoLex Fridman’s podcast had an ex-CIA agent on it recently and he mentioned how bcs of issues like this in Europe the war in Ukraine has to end by the fall. His words were “NATO needs Russian sanctions lifted”. He implied the war will be over by the fall (in his assessment).
- christophilus 4y agoDidn’t listen to the podcast, but that seems right. The world’s oil producers have everyone by the shorthairs, and it will be undeniable in a few month’s time. I think Russia will get away with whatever they please because of this. It’ll be interesting to see what the narrative looks like this time next year.
- short_sells_poo 4y agoRussia has been biding their time, occasionally showing that they are willing to turn off the tap. They clearly want to save the weapon for winter though. When temperatures drop, Russia will sadly have the entirety of Europe by the balls. It is simply unthinkable that the population will be willing to stomach blackouts or not being able to heat their homes. I don't see a way out but the unfortunate outcome that Ukraine will be sacrificed.
- generalizations 4y agoConsidering even people here on HN foresaw that exact outcome within days/weeks of the initial invasion, the current situation stinks of some extreme incompetence within NATO.
- short_sells_poo 4y agoI genuinely don't understand what was the plan. Maybe they were hoping that Putin will fall before then? That'd be very shortsighted and a fundamental misunderstanding of the regime.
- yrgulation 4y agoHopefully property prices drop as i am on the market for buying.
- markhesketh 4y agoI'm the same, but I'm not sure how likely it'll be. My fear is the gov will do everything they can to prop it up, like in covid, possibly leading it to rise yet again.
- yrgulation 4y agoThe uk is one of those strange countries where property prices go up despite rampant inflation (thus reduced budgets), increasing interest rates and increasing energy bills. But i still hope that somehow there will he a blip. Anyway good look! I am looking at mk (post code not necessarily the city), small villages and towns ideally around the new rail. We might even end up as neighbours!
- ak_111 4y agowait isn't it standard for real estate to go up in inflationary times?
- yrgulation 4y agoHow? There’s a family budget. You subtract increasing costs for food, clothing, public transport, and whats left gets used for a mortgage. So unless pay goes up you cant afford a mortgage. Traditionally the government and banks would make loans cheaper. But the interest rate is also going up. The british government is talking about multi generational loans but to me thats just crazy. We really need to solve it by making housing more affordable.
- bagacrap 4y agoReal estate is an asset. The price of assets increases when there's inflation. I'm not so sure you pay for things in the order listed. You probably can do without new clothes longer than you can go without shelter.
- rnwall 4y agoMeanwhile, Putin is burning off gas that would have been exported otherwise: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62652133 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62652133 "They say the plant, near the border with Finland, is burning an estimated $10m (£8.4m) worth of gas every day. Experts say the gas would previously have been exported to Germany."
- drexlspivey 4y ago> Experts say the gas would previously have been exported to Germany. > Germany's ambassador to the UK told BBC News that Russia was burning the gas because "they couldn't sell it elsewhere". > Scientists are concerned about the large volumes of carbon dioxide and soot it is creating, which could exacerbate the melting of Arctic ice. Apparently if Germany burns it to produce energy no carbon dioxide is produced.
- hatrg 4y agoGermany will burn resources from other human rights respecting regimes like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. Or domestic coal. So the carbon dioxide doubles.
- zbrozek 4y agoI can imagine flaring might produce more soot. And of course Germany is burning other fuel instead of this gas, which is also being burned.
- jarym 4y agoHonestly the conservatives are such an awful party in their current form. Short sighted cost cutting and focussing on ideological issues like Brexit while doling out lucrative contracts to connected parties during a pandemic. So horrible that in the current leadership contest there’s not much either candidate can say that’s positive about their last 12 years in government.
- etothepii 4y agoIsn't it strange how both sides of the political divide have no problem assuming the ineptitudes of their opponents derive from bad motives? By definition Liz Truss's "tax cuts will grow the economy" plan is the definition of long term thinking. You might disagree or think it's wrong but it's not short termism.
- short_sells_poo 4y agoWe need long term solutions for sure. But right now we need very urgently a short term solution to bridge over the majority of the population who won't be able to heat and power their homes this winter. What we need is clear and efficient crisis response and all the Tory government has shown so far is a colossal ineptitude and blatant corruption coupled with near sociopathic disregard for the wellbeing of most people.
- stevesimmons 4y ago> ... is the definition of long term thinking It involved no thinking beyond "will it help me be elected prime minister over the next two weeks?"
- jarym 4y agoYep - they’ll say anything to get in and once they do they’ll do whatever they feel like. Promises are cheap, more so those without details. She could get herself elected, deliver a tax cut worth £1 in absolute terms to every tax payer and claim she delivered under difficult circumstances. Rishi at least isn’t lying about the challenges but honesty doesn’t work so well during elections as he’s sadly learning. But crocodile tears from me for his plight.
- rwnspace 4y agoWhat I find deeply disturbing about this is how fast the 'cuz of Ukraine war' narrative has taken hold in the UK, even among intelligent colleagues of mine. The UKs (complete lack of) leadership is going to send the country into an economic meltdown larger than any in living memory unless something seriously drastic is done by January. I am already on rice and beans or porridge for every meal. If nothing is done I will literally be reading by candlelight under 5 layers this winter.
- Kiro 4y agoAll countries in Europe are experiencing the same thing. This is not an issue unique to the UK so blaming it on your leadership is giving them too much credit.
- short_sells_poo 4y agoThat other countries are also in trouble doesn't excuse the UK government one bit. I don't live in other countries in Europe. It's sad that they also have issues. However, I primarily don't want people in the UK to freeze to death because of an incompetent government.
- rwnspace 4y ago> All countries in Europe are experiencing the same thing. That's not quite true. Only a few countries are facing a 100% (or 'more') wipe-out of disposable income for the majority of the population. The UK is only really affected by Russian gas in it's impact on the global market. We can do fine without. Yet we are among the worst affected in terms of billing consumers. Other governments are doing more in terms of alleviating household spending, policy change and enforcing windfall taxes.
- Philip-J-Fry 4y agoNow's the time where there should be a war time effort to build renewable energy in this country (and in Europe) but the government sits around and does nothing. The incoming prime minister even suggests scrapping the green levy on energy bills, and is attacking solar panels suggesting that we shouldn't build them and instead use the land to farm food. There should be a scrapping of planning permission for the building of small solar farms and small wind turbines. They should be approving new wind farms at record rates. Instead it takes them years and years to approve this shit, and the NIMBYs get away with blocking it. 2 more years of this by the way. The state of this country...
- ajvs 4y agoThe use of perfectly good farmland for solar panels is wasteful. Have you not heard of the current Netherlands protests about the same, which is likely to cause food shortages in the years to come? I'd rather instead nuclear power plants since they're a fraction of the size compared to solar, or solar panels on top of existing buildings, or more wind turbines since they're more space-efficient and can alternatively be placed offshore.
- smcl 4y agoNick Clegg has to feel pretty stupid right now - here he is back in 2010 (when he was part of a coalition government) opposing investment in Nuclear Power since it wouldn't be online until the unimaginably distant year of 2022: https://twitter.com/mlanetrain/status/1556381583585804291 https://twitter.com/mlanetrain/status/1556381583585804291
- permo-w 4y agoI sincerely doubt he has the capacity to feel stupid about anything. the epitome of a politician taking the money and running
- nathanaldensr 4y agoSelf-fulfilling prophecies for sure.
- lucb1e 4y agoI mean that's what climate activists have been saying for decades as well and continue to say today. Last I checked, we're not supposed to be carbon neutral until 2050 anyhow, and my money isn't on us making that goal in the first place so imo we should take any gains we can get, but apparently it's hard to do the sensible thing without being forced into it
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- vimy 4y agoWould be a good start to change how electricity prices are calculated in Europe. The whole system is broken. The price is set by the highest costing source. In this case gas plants. Nuclear plants that are paid off are producing near free energy but it’s sold at the same price like gas. Wind and solar are also sold at the same price like gas. Even if only 10 % comes from gas plants (just an example) it all costs the same. It’s insane. And cap the EU CO2 emission trading system. Speculators are pushing up those prices making everything worse. These prices are at least 50 % policy failure.
- bsaul 4y agoHave any idea what the original intention behind this pricing system was ? There must have been a reason for it…
- stu432 4y agoThis is a good read that explains a lot of how the market works https://www.politico.eu/article/why-europes-electricity-is-so-expensive/amp/ https://www.politico.eu/article/why-europes-electricity-is-s.... Basically to enable recouping investments in primarily wind/solar since they have no real ongoing input costs. The article explains it well, but doesn't paint a good picture until those future storage technologies are here.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoIt's designed for fossil fuels not renewables. Renewables bid low, because that accurately reflects their costs, which the bidding system is design to reveal, like an auction. The only problem is that gas is scarce and really expensive. And people seem allergic to any solution which isn't to subsidize the cost of gas, driving up demand.
- stu432 4y agoAnd the renewables get the highest price, which will always be higher than their production costs... It's designed to repay investment into non fossil fuel power supply that don't have those variable input costs.
- iam-TJ 4y agoThe price cap should be on the energy producers (wholesale) as well as the retailers. This is just naked profiteering at the energy producer stage for those that aren't using natural gas as their sole energy source. It isn't costing any more to produce electricity from nuclear, coal, hydro and renewable sources and yet these are being priced at the same rate as gas [0]. So, for example, British Gas (BG) and EDF are profiteering massively since they use no, or very little, natural gas. All energy companies in the UK are required to publish their energy source mix. Here for example are the six largest producers[0]. There are many more smaller producers and associated retail suppliers that use them and many are focused on 'green' sources: Nuclear Coal N.Gas Renew Other Non-Gas Market Share[7] EDF[1] 62.1% 1.3% 7.5% 29.0% 0.1% 92.5% 18.52% BG[2] 35.0% 0.0% 0.0% 65.0% 0.0% 100.0% 23.70% (a) EON[3] 5.7% 3.5% 43.5% 43.7% 3.6% 66.5% 14.07% NPOWER[4] 6.9% 4.2% 52.6% 31.9% 4.4% 47.4% 24.07% SCOT PWR[5] 6.0% 4.0% 46.0% 40.0% 4.0% 54.0% 10.00% OVO/SSE[6] 0.0% 0.0% 49.6% 50.4% 0.0% 50.4% 18.50% (b) So these six represent by far the majority. In fact adding up these market shares comes to 108.86%! That is because these companies supply both electricity and gas, sometimes separately, so one customer may get electricity from supplier A and natural gas from supplier B. That customer would be counted twice. (a) British Gas is a trading name of Centrica which was formed when the original British Gas plc was split in a de-merger in 1997. (b) OVO bought SSE in 2020. [0] https://www.energycompanynumbers.co.uk/who-are-the-big-six-energy-suppliers/ https://www.energycompanynumbers.co.uk/who-are-the-big-six-e... [1] https://www.edfenergy.com/fuel-mix https://www.edfenergy.com/fuel-mix [2] https://www.britishgasplus.co.uk/fuel-mix https://www.britishgasplus.co.uk/fuel-mix [3] https://www.eonenergy.com/About-eon/Fuel-Mix https://www.eonenergy.com/About-eon/Fuel-Mix [4] https://npowerbusinesssolutions.com/company/fuel-mix https://npowerbusinesssolutions.com/company/fuel-mix [5] https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/about-us/performance/fuel-mix https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/about-us/performance/fuel-mi... [6] https://sse.co.uk/v3/assets/blt09078e271abddd45/blt04622618eb198f78/614c39b8ee502d0e1337de29/energy_fuel-mix.pdf https://sse.co.uk/v3/assets/blt09078e271abddd45/blt04622618e... [7] https://www.theenergyshop.com/energy-suppliers https://www.theenergyshop.com/energy-suppliers
- kaashif 4y agoRenewables and natural gas are two ways of producing the same product - electricity (let's ignore heating/cooking with gas for a second). The supply of energy is cut, demand remains the same, prices rise - this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Prices aren't determined by costs and never have been. Prices are only determined by supply and demand. Not saying it's right, but you're framing this as some kind of unexpected phenomenon when this is obviously how things work. More regulation is needed to stop people dying in the cold (obviously) but let's not forget why price signals are useful: the possibility for naked profiteering should act as a huge incentive for renewable generators to invest! But in reality, the UK government is going to start cracking down on wind and solar, which is insane. Residents of areas with planned renewable projects also have a habit of blocking them for inane reasons. If owning a wind farm is a license to print money, we should LET PEOPLE BUILD THEM!
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y agowhile BP has biggest profit in 14 years: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62382624 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62382624 fake austerity brought about by the top 1% taking everything for themselves. same old bs.
- secondcoming 4y agoI’m thinking that turning off my smart meter and manually supplying meter readings is a good plan. In the month(s) before the prices are due to increase, give a higher reading so those units are charged at the lower price. It won’t help with the standing charge though, which for me is typically the majority of the bill.
- sys_64738 4y agoBritain made its choices in the last decade with Brexit and voting for Boris. If they had voted for Cornyn and Labour then they would have been on a path of massive investment in renewables and this perfect storm would easily be weathered. Be careful who you vote for.
- smcl 4y agoWhile I believe that is true, I think you'll have a tough time convincing the public at large of it. I've honestly seen people saying "imagine how much worse it would have been under Corbyn..." or somehow deciding that he was to blame for all of this ("if he wasn't leader of Labour they might have won in 2019..." etc).
- ploppyploppy 4y agoIs this a joke/troll?
- dogma1138 4y agoIn the UK fuel poverty is defined as any household that spends more than 10% of their take home on energy. This means that within about a year March 2022 to April 2023 the line will shifted for a single earner earning below minimum wage to a single earner in the 97th-98th+ percentiles. If the cap reaches £7K a single earner household on £140,000 with a 5% pension contributions and a student loan (England and Wales) would be considered in fuel poverty. Excluding pension contributions and students loans drops the required figure to be in fuel poverty to anyone who’s earning £110,000 or less. The median disposable (take home) household income in the UK is £31,400 with the October price cap of £3500 more than 50% of households would be in fuel poverty already. In January and April this will likely jump to 99% of households unless drastic measures will be taken.
- dang 4y agoRelated ongoing thread (currently on front page): Day ahead electricity prices for EU - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32618438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32618438 - Aug 2022 (160 comments)