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It's definately not true. In Vancouver, Canada where there's been a bull market in housing for over thirty years straight, builders make a pretty good living. I

by eloff 4y ago

It's definately not true. In Vancouver, Canada where there's been a bull market in housing for over thirty years straight, builders make a pretty good living. I've met some earning 250-400k a year. As a software engineer, I felt I was in the wrong business. That profit is part of the cost to build, yes. But it also doesn't have to be that high, that's really enabled by market conditions.

SECProto 4y ago
> I've met some earning 250-400k a year. As a software engineer, I felt I was in the wrong business. That's definitely "grass is always greener" thinking, of the same sort that makes others hear about Google project manager salaries and think they should be working as a programmer. For every one person making 250k+ at a construction company, there are probably a hundred making <100k. Salaries don't go much beyond 120k unless you're in the owner sort of category. And the industry comes along with working 10+ hour days (630am to 5pm is a pretty regular schedule, 4pm on Fridays tho!), outdoors, regardless of weather. And it's physically demanding work
- eloff 4y ago
  These are owners, not employees. Basically contractors that manage all the subcontracting in a construction project. It can be physically exhausting work, and long hours for sure. Still, it's impressive that they can pull in those kinds of figures.
  - reportingsjr 4y ago
    Spot on. Even in the midwest US (e.g. Ohio) high end contractors can pull in close to the numbers you mentioned. Definitely requires 50-60+ hours a week for decades to get there though.
patrick451 4y ago
Home builders carry a lot more risk than your average software dev. You read all the time about devs making 250-400k. I'm in that range myself. There is basically no way I can screw up my job that results in anything worse than getting fired. If you are a home builder, you have on-going liability for everything you build. It's not unheard of to hear about somebody getting sued for something they built a decade ago. Imagine if your career could be ruined because code you wrote 10 years ago had a use after free bug? Fluctuations in interest rates, material costs and the housing market in general means they also have a lot of risk on the business side. This is especially true for those building spec houses. Honestly, compared to the software world, that profit range sounds too small.
- Bakary 4y ago
  It's more the case that the software world is absurdly generous to labor compared to the rest.
- thinkharderdev 4y ago
  Yeah, the bigger risk is just how insanely pro-ccyclical the housing market is. There are of course ups and downs in the world of software engineering but it's not like if there is a recession, all new software development is halted. Whereas in the housing market, housing starts basically fall off a cliff during a recession.
- eloff 4y ago
  At those rates, it's a fantastic career. However, compared to software most careers fall short. I feel incredibly lucky that I chose software and that I love it. I was intentional about it, in that I chose software from when I was a teenager because I wanted to be rich and that's where I saw the money. 25 years later, I'm not rich (not yet anyway, haven't given up) but I'm comfortable. I'm probably quite poor compared to software engineers of my age, but it's been an amazing career so far, and it's far from over.

by eloff 4y ago

SECProto 4y ago

> I've met some earning 250-400k a year. As a software engineer, I felt I was in the wrong business. That's definitely "grass is always greener" thinking, of the same sort that makes others hear about Google project manager salaries and think they should be working as a programmer. For every one person making 250k+ at a construction company, there are probably a hundred making <100k. Salaries don't go much beyond 120k unless you're in the owner sort of category. And the industry comes along with working 10+ hour days (630am to 5pm is a pretty regular schedule, 4pm on Fridays tho!), outdoors, regardless of weather. And it's physically demanding work

eloff 4y ago
These are owners, not employees. Basically contractors that manage all the subcontracting in a construction project. It can be physically exhausting work, and long hours for sure. Still, it's impressive that they can pull in those kinds of figures.
- reportingsjr 4y ago
  Spot on. Even in the midwest US (e.g. Ohio) high end contractors can pull in close to the numbers you mentioned. Definitely requires 50-60+ hours a week for decades to get there though.

patrick451 4y ago

Home builders carry a lot more risk than your average software dev. You read all the time about devs making 250-400k. I'm in that range myself. There is basically no way I can screw up my job that results in anything worse than getting fired. If you are a home builder, you have on-going liability for everything you build. It's not unheard of to hear about somebody getting sued for something they built a decade ago. Imagine if your career could be ruined because code you wrote 10 years ago had a use after free bug? Fluctuations in interest rates, material costs and the housing market in general means they also have a lot of risk on the business side. This is especially true for those building spec houses. Honestly, compared to the software world, that profit range sounds too small.

Bakary 4y ago
It's more the case that the software world is absurdly generous to labor compared to the rest.
thinkharderdev 4y ago
Yeah, the bigger risk is just how insanely pro-ccyclical the housing market is. There are of course ups and downs in the world of software engineering but it's not like if there is a recession, all new software development is halted. Whereas in the housing market, housing starts basically fall off a cliff during a recession.
eloff 4y ago
At those rates, it's a fantastic career. However, compared to software most careers fall short. I feel incredibly lucky that I chose software and that I love it. I was intentional about it, in that I chose software from when I was a teenager because I wanted to be rich and that's where I saw the money. 25 years later, I'm not rich (not yet anyway, haven't given up) but I'm comfortable. I'm probably quite poor compared to software engineers of my age, but it's been an amazing career so far, and it's far from over.